Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

[skwayb]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

I would suggest reading the P4 Document in the FAQ section of Code 59. It describes how everything works. I put all the variable names in the XDF so you can see what they do when you read the P4 document. (i.e F1 table, KCTBIAS - Coolant bias, etc.)

http://www.code59.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=38&func=view&catid=22&id=7986

For Spark read page 76. This tells how it is calculated
Spark timing advance calculations are the sum of the following term:
· Main Spark Advance Table (*F1*)
· Coolant Temperature Correction Table (*F2)
· EGR Correction Table (*F4*)
· Power Enrichment Spark Advance
· Spark Advance Boost Table (*F3*)
· Minus the Following Bias Values:
1. Coolant Advance Bias (*KCTBIAS*)
2. Manifold Air Temperature Bias (*KMATBIAS*)
3. Boost Advance Bias (*KBSTBIAS*)
4. Spark Advance Run Time-out
5. EGR Advance Bias (*KEGRBIAS*)
6. Malfunction 32 Test term (*KKEGRSPK*), if applicable.

System spark advance is calculated relative to top dead center (TDC) but must be output relative to the HEI reference signal. The difference between TDC and the reference signal is accounted for by subtracting the value *KREFANGL* is the same as the static advance angle.
​

Output Spark Advance (w.r.t. TDC) = System Spark Advance - *KREFANGL*

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Thanks Paul.:tup:

 

[skwayb]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Also I forgot to mention when at idle/closed throttle, Only the 600 RPM row of the F1 table will be used for Spark even if you are at 1000 rpms at idle. That is how the GM Code was setup and we left it that way.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Also I forgot to mention when at idle/closed throttle, Only the 600 RPM row of the F1 table will be used for Spark even if you are at 1000 rpms at idle. That is how the GM Code was setup and we left it that way.

Paul,
let me get this right.

No matter what RPM @ idle/closed throttle, only the 600 RPM row is adjustable?

What about the rest of the F1 table?

I am following the tracer cell in the F1 table in playback mode I recorded & lets say the tracer cell is in box 273 @ 3600,,, do I adjust the timing in the map cell 273 @ 3600 RPM? or is there somewhere else I am supposed to adjust the spark advance?

Thanks again.

 

[skwayb]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Closed Throttle/Idle (when you are off the gas) and the flag for closed throttle comes on, then it uses the 600rpm row for spark (plus what ever your map reading example: 51 kpa).

When the closed throttle flag turns off, then all the cells in the F1 table are active.

If you have the 29c table turned on, then the fueling would come from this when the closed throttle flag comes on. By default code59 has this table turned off so you would be useing the 29x table. But it is something to be aware of if you ever need to turn the 29c table back on.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Thanks.
Where is this closed throttle flag?

 

[skwayb]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

It is outputted in the ALDL Stream. The Yellow not pad icon in TunerPro5 will show you the item list. There you select FLAGS in the drop down. The item is labled IS THROTTLE CLOSED.

Now you can adjust a constant to determine when the ECM considers the throttle to be closed at what TPS. I beleive this is it but I could be wrong. IAC - Minimum Throttle Position for Idle (KISTPS1) Once it drops below that value, it considers the throttle closed and the flag will go active.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Ok,
so I went out to check the spark advance as compared to the F1 timing table.
I input 22* timing in the 37 map table @ 600 RPM & check it a adjustable dial up timing light, sure enough it reads approx 22* @ idle closed throttle so that reads correctly.
I then input o* @ 2400 & 2800 RPM in map isle 37 , brought the RPM to 2500-2600 & the timing did not drop to 0*, I input 10* in the same RPMs , no change.
I go on to apply the brakes give it some throttle, in the map box of 67 @ 2000 RPM, the input is 27*, the spark advance reads 18*, also @ other RPMs the spark advance does not follow my F1 timing table.
Any ideas guys?
Does the vehicle need to be moving in order for the spark advance timing table (F1 ) to follow the tracer cells I inputed?
Thanks.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Question:

If I want to have 0* of spark timing @ 2500 RPM In park, how would I go about doing this? Is this possible?

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Just messing around w/the timing table F1.

At idle I input 0* @ the 600 RPM row & the spark advance would show 3-4 degrees of timing.

I would then inut -5* in the same row & the spark timing readout would still show 3-4*

Just to check if the inputs are working, I input 26* & the spark advance would read approx 24-25 *, so that seems to work OK.
Any ideas of why the timing will not go to zero in the spark advance readout?

Is it possible to get 0* of timing w/the est (brown wire w/black stripe) wire plugged in?

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

I did some datalogging last night. The IAC ranges from 87-91. While driving & boosting.

One thing I have been noticing is the IAC really moves around a lot @ idle & I have been needing to adjust the fueling table to correct the A/F ratio for idle because it seems erractic @ times.

At idle the IAC is about 30, but when I select into drive it goes to 87-91 range, is this normal?

What are symtoms of a bad IAC?

Should I adjust the TB set screw @ all?

I also noticed when running the A/C the IAC is @ 120,,, normal?

I would think the IAC should not be moving so much, but what do I know? I am trying to learn.

Help please.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

I have been exchanging emails w/Julio about tuning.

He stated he tunes & looks @ knock when his trans is in high gear.

He says this way it eliminates most all of false knock, like suspension , exhaust rattles, transmission shifts etc.

I seem to have some false knock on my Sy because I have seen a few times KR go as high as 16-18* & cannot even hear any knock.

My thought was that if you see more than approx 9-10* of KR, you can definately hear it. Correct or incorrect?

Julio has said his TTA had a horrible false knock when trans shifted gears 1st to 2nd as high as 50* of KR.
His trans was really noisy during shifts.
He had a chip made to ignore KR in first gear.

With code 59, can we make the chip ignore KR in certain gears or one gear?

Just was wondering your guys' thoughts are when tuning, maybe just tune more for high gear?

I just seem to have some false knock because I cannot seem to get consistant runs when data logging.

Thank you.:tup:

 

[johnboy89]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Getting consistent runs has also been a problem with me!!!!! Sometimes I see 4-5KR other times none at all and I also seem to think at times it's false!!!!

Julio is a good man and very helpful!!!!!

I have been exchanging emails w/Julio about tuning.

He stated he tunes & looks @ knock when his trans is in high gear.

He says this way it eliminates most all of false knock, like suspension , exhuast rattles, transmission shifts etc.

I seem to have some false knock on my Sy because I have seen a few times KR go as high as 16-18* & cannot even hear any knock.

My thought was that if you see more than approx 9-10* of KR, you can definately hear it. Correct or incorrect?

Julio has said his TTA had a horrible false knock when trans shifted gears 1st to 2nd as high as 50* of KR.
His trans was really noisy during shifts.
He had a chip made to ignore KR in first gear.

With code 59, can we make the chip ignore KR in certain gears or one gear?

Just was wondering your guys' thoughts are when tuning, maybe just tune more for high gear?

I just seem to have some false knock because I cannot seem to get consistant runs when data logging.

Thank you.:tup:

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Hey guys, quick question. TP5RT

When you want to put the tune in closed loop, what do you do & what indication shows it is in closed loop?
Thank you.

 

[sytyguy]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

With the stock O2, all you have to do is make sure the scalars are at levels that can logically be met. Most people only modify KCLTC to run open loop, so all you *should* have to do is set KCLTC to something achievable (e.g. 40 degC).

If you're running an integrated WB and code59, you need to ensure that the above is set, as well as the following 3 flags:

- The specific WBO2 flag for your WB
- The "Enable WBO2 Sensor for CL Operation" flag
- The "Use Desired AFR Table (F29_AFR)" flag

When datalogging, set a bitmask for "Closed Loop". When the tune goes OL, it'll show Open Loop.....when it's CL, it'll show Closed Loop. Easy peasy.

 

[sytyguy]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Also, you asked me this in PM, but I figured I'd answer here for the public's benefit.

I noticed when I was running higher boost (24 psi & higher) the engine seemed to pop & shut down momentarily, could it be the scalars are set incorrect? Which way allows more boost, a higher number (say 290.00?) in the KWGMAPH scalar?

Answer: yes, it could be that you're hitting the overboost fuel cut. You need to set KWGMAPH high enough that you don't hit it. If you have deity-like faith in your boost control, then go ahead and max that scalar. Otherwise, set it 2-3 psi above target boost. You shouldn't have to modify KWGMAPL as that is the boost level where fuel is re-enabled after hitting the fuel cut, but you want it to be within 2-3 psi of your high scalar. For instance, let's say you have your high scalar at 255 kpa and your low at 240 kpa. You jump on it and boost shoots up to 23 psi and you hit the fuel cut.....fuel will remain cut until the MAP reading drops to 240 kpa or less, at which time, fuel will be re-enabled.

Here's a quick and dirty kpa to psi scale (at sea level) for those modifying that scalar.

101 kpa = 00.0 psi
105 kpa = 00.5 psi
120 kpa = 02.7 psi
135 kpa = 04.9 psi
150 kpa = 07.1 psi
165 kpa = 09.2 psi
180 kpa = 11.4 psi
195 kpa = 13.7 psi
210 kpa = 15.8 psi
225 kpa = 17.9 psi
240 kpa = 20.1 psi
255 kpa = 22.3 psi
270 kpa = 24.4 psi
285 kpa = 26.6 psi
300 kpa = 28.8 psi

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Great info!

Thank you for your help!!:tup::tup:

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

I think I asked this before but had no real direct answer.

I would like for the injectors to turn off or close to it for when I let off of the throttle. It seems the only time the A/F will go to 18-19 is when I am decelerating under a lot of heavy engine braking.
Other wise when I let off the throttle the A/F ratio does not change much @ all.
Is there a table or scaler I can change this condition?

Thank you. :tup:

 

[sytyguy]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Is there a table or scaler I can change this condition?

Of course. There's a whole group for Deceleration in the tables section. F36 and F35 will yield the greatest results and control over what you want, but you need F39 and F34 properly set as well.

For F34, this is a multiplier based on current coolant temp. A cold engine will need more fuel than a warm one. So, if you let off the throttle while cruising with a cold engine, there will need to be less decel enleanment (meaning a richer commanded condition) to get a desired AFR. Opposite applies when warmed up.

For F39, this is a decel multiplier based strictly on current MAP kpa. This is similar to F38 for AE, but applies to DE and references MAP instead of RPM. Got a condition where decel is too rich or too lean at a constant kpa regardless of throttle or MAP change? Here's where you remedy it.

For F36, this is the main DE contribution table based on TPS delta (delta (Δ) = change (in)). So, think of when you let off the throttle.....did you let off just a little bit (say, from 15% to 8% = 7% change), or did you have to abort acceleration (say, 50% to 0%)? This table considers any change ≥ 25% to be the same, but fine tuning is possible below that (in 6.25% increments). Higher values result in greater DE.

For F35, this is the main DE contribution based on MAP delta. Same basic principal as above, but this table references change in MAP kpa. Generally, TPS and MAP will follow a relatively linear pattern together when it comes to DE (which is why the tables are similar in scale of change), but not always. Again, higher values result in greater DE.

So, how to decide to tune in F35 or F36.....let's think of a situation. For instance, in first gear you have less load on the engine for a given condition than in fourth gear. So, if you're at 100 kpa (~0 psi) in first, you may be at 35% TPS, and if you let off the throttle, you would see a 35% TPS change, but a 50-60 kpa change. In fourth gear you could be at 100 kpa and only 18% TPS, and if you let off the throttle, you'd see the same 50-60 kpa change but a much lower TPS change. If one situation gives you a different result than the other, tune the cells corresponding to that condition (based on TPS). If the change in kpa is the same (regardless of TPS) and the conditional result is the same (too lean or too rich), then tune that cell based on kpa.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.

Of course. There's a whole group for Deceleration in the tables section. F36 and F35 will yield the greatest results and control over what you want, but you need F39 and F34 properly set as well.

For F34, this is a multiplier based on current coolant temp. A cold engine will need more fuel than a warm one. So, if you let off the throttle while cruising with a cold engine, there will need to be less decel enleanment (meaning a richer commanded condition) to get a desired AFR. Opposite applies when warmed up.

For F39, this is a decel multiplier based strictly on current MAP kpa. This is similar to F38 for AE, but applies to DE and references MAP instead of RPM. Got a condition where decel is too rich or too lean at a constant kpa regardless of throttle or MAP change? Here's where you remedy it.

For F36, this is the main DE contribution table based on TPS delta (delta (Δ) = change (in)). So, think of when you let off the throttle.....did you let off just a little bit (say, from 15% to 8% = 7% change), or did you have to abort acceleration (say, 50% to 0%)? This table considers any change ≥ 25% to be the same, but fine tuning is possible below that (in 6.25% increments). Higher values result in greater DE.

For F35, this is the main DE contribution based on MAP delta. Same basic principal as above, but this table references change in MAP kpa. Generally, TPS and MAP will follow a relatively linear pattern together when it comes to DE (which is why the tables are similar in scale of change), but not always. Again, higher values result in greater DE.

So, how to decide to tune in F35 or F36.....let's think of a situation. For instance, in first gear you have less load on the engine for a given condition than in fourth gear. So, if you're at 100 kpa (~0 psi) in first, you may be at 35% TPS, and if you let off the throttle, you would see a 35% TPS change, but a 50-60 kpa change. In fourth gear you could be at 100 kpa and only 18% TPS, and if you let off the throttle, you'd see the same 50-60 kpa change but a much lower TPS change. If one situation gives you a different result than the other, tune the cells corresponding to that condition (based on TPS). If the change in kpa is the same (regardless of TPS) and the conditional result is the same (too lean or too rich), then tune that cell based on kpa.

As always, your answers are in great depth & detailed. That is a good thing.:tup:

Thanks again Mike.

Rick