Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
- Thread starter It's just a six
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JSM
Active member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
Drag and drop the file onto an open tunerpro window.
Drag and drop the file onto an open tunerpro window.
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
Thanks
Thanks
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
I have been seeing the engine is cold blooded on first start & I need to adjust the fueling table & richen it up so it will stay running.
What table do I need to go to as to richin up the engine when it is cold? Is it cold start/run?
The number is 100, is this what I would change (to say 150) to richen up the idle for a cold start or something else?
Thanks
I have been seeing the engine is cold blooded on first start & I need to adjust the fueling table & richen it up so it will stay running.
What table do I need to go to as to richin up the engine when it is cold? Is it cold start/run?
The number is 100, is this what I would change (to say 150) to richen up the idle for a cold start or something else?
Thanks
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
I actually had to go much richer, it was @ 14.7 initially, I dropped it down to 13.5 still, not enough, so I ended up adjusting it down to around 9 ish.
I used both tables,F56 & F57.
Thanks for the tip!
Thanks for that.:tup:
I input about 1 full point richer AFR wise in the F57 table, will try it soon to see if it helped.
Thanks again.
I actually had to go much richer, it was @ 14.7 initially, I dropped it down to 13.5 still, not enough, so I ended up adjusting it down to around 9 ish.
I used both tables,F56 & F57.
Thanks for the tip!
Thanks for that.:tup:
I input about 1 full point richer AFR wise in the F57 table, will try it soon to see if it helped.
Thanks again.
Last edited:
IpHoOnDyou
New member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
We should make this thread a sticky!! It is VERY informative on how to use tunerpro an datamaster!! Ive learned alot already
We should make this thread a sticky!! It is VERY informative on how to use tunerpro an datamaster!! Ive learned alot already
skwayb
NWSTP
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
Just my 2 cents onstarter bins. Never use a start bin for injectors LARGER than what you are running. (ex. 40lb bin on 36lb injectors) It will run SUPER LEAN. It would be better to start with a starter bin for injectors SMALLER than what you have.(33lb bin on 36lb injectors) It will run richer that way. (basically smaller injectors have to stay open longer so using a bin for smaller injectors with bigger injectors would spray more fuel).
For your 36lb injectors, it would be better to start with a 33 lb bin so it runs richer... not a 40lb bin (run lean). Otherwise you run the risk of damaaging the motor once you get into any amount of boost.
Just my 2 cents onstarter bins. Never use a start bin for injectors LARGER than what you are running. (ex. 40lb bin on 36lb injectors) It will run SUPER LEAN. It would be better to start with a starter bin for injectors SMALLER than what you have.(33lb bin on 36lb injectors) It will run richer that way. (basically smaller injectors have to stay open longer so using a bin for smaller injectors with bigger injectors would spray more fuel).
For your 36lb injectors, it would be better to start with a 33 lb bin so it runs richer... not a 40lb bin (run lean). Otherwise you run the risk of damaaging the motor once you get into any amount of boost.
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
Ok, I noticed right away the fuel was leaner everwhere,,, so I added another 30 something point to the F28 table, seems to be fine now & is on the rich side.
I was thinking just the opposite,, was thinking if I ran 33 LB bin, it would have been richer everywhere since I am using 36 lb injectors,, my incorrect way of thinking.
All the rest of Robs added items was a closer match to my added non stock items in his 40 bin so I figured that bin would have been a closer match (other than the 40 lb injectors) & also I figured Rob has been tuning for a while so I thought he knows what he is doing.
Thanks Paul for the tip, a little late but good to know.:tup:
Ok, I noticed right away the fuel was leaner everwhere,,, so I added another 30 something point to the F28 table, seems to be fine now & is on the rich side.
I was thinking just the opposite,, was thinking if I ran 33 LB bin, it would have been richer everywhere since I am using 36 lb injectors,, my incorrect way of thinking.
All the rest of Robs added items was a closer match to my added non stock items in his 40 bin so I figured that bin would have been a closer match (other than the 40 lb injectors) & also I figured Rob has been tuning for a while so I thought he knows what he is doing.
Thanks Paul for the tip, a little late but good to know.:tup:
JSM
Active member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
In tuning there is no 1 right answer, but several ways to solve the same problem. I learn new ideas all the time, people approach issues different ways, etc. That is partly what is fun about it.
Just keep reading, learning and doing, and soon people will think your an expert also while you still think to yourself I have no clue what I am doing.
In tuning there is no 1 right answer, but several ways to solve the same problem. I learn new ideas all the time, people approach issues different ways, etc. That is partly what is fun about it.
Just keep reading, learning and doing, and soon people will think your an expert also while you still think to yourself I have no clue what I am doing.
sytyguy
Moderated User
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
This has been said before, but when tuning a new combo (modding a small inj bin for larger inj) or working with large fueling changes, it's often easier to get the bulk of the fueling in the ballpark with F28. Here's what I do (let's say I'm tuning a stock 50# truck off of a stock inj bin):
Fire up truck and let it idle.....it's gonna be rich because the the stock inj bin is commanding a premapped amount of fuel to be delivered and the larger injectors are giving more fuel with each pulse. If truck is in Open Loop, look strictly at AFR and lower the 0 cell in F28 (say stock is 158, I might bump it down to 145 or so). Observe and repeat until I'm getting low-mid 13's (AFR) at idle. If the truck switches to Closed Loop, I'll command low-mid 13's at idle in F29_AFR and tune off of the INT/BLM, lowering until I see BLM at 128 and INT hovering near 128 (124-132).
Then, I'll start to give it some throttle and watch the AFRs (INT/BLM) and tune F29x to get my fueling where I want it in that range (turn on data tracing to make it easy). I usually start by holding 1200 rpm at idle (in Park) and then 1600 and then 2000. After those are close, I'm confident enough to do some simple driving (usually around the farm - 1200 acres and all private roads, so I don't have to worry about traffic), again tuning to get AFRs that I want (mid 13's at idle, high 15's at cruise, mid 14's at initial throttle tip-in, decreasing somewhat linearly until I see a little boost).
Now, even though I mention how I tune in Closed Loop, it is WAY easier to disable Closed Loop while tuning initial stuff. That way you don't have the trouble of deciphering INT/BLM behavior or having O2 observation masking fueling quirks. Switch it to Open Loop (set KCLTC to 151 degC under scalars - about mid-way down), watch the AFRs and tune for the numbers you want. Once they're close, switch to Closed Loop and observe INT/BLM behavior (live or histogram).
This has been said before, but when tuning a new combo (modding a small inj bin for larger inj) or working with large fueling changes, it's often easier to get the bulk of the fueling in the ballpark with F28. Here's what I do (let's say I'm tuning a stock 50# truck off of a stock inj bin):
Fire up truck and let it idle.....it's gonna be rich because the the stock inj bin is commanding a premapped amount of fuel to be delivered and the larger injectors are giving more fuel with each pulse. If truck is in Open Loop, look strictly at AFR and lower the 0 cell in F28 (say stock is 158, I might bump it down to 145 or so). Observe and repeat until I'm getting low-mid 13's (AFR) at idle. If the truck switches to Closed Loop, I'll command low-mid 13's at idle in F29_AFR and tune off of the INT/BLM, lowering until I see BLM at 128 and INT hovering near 128 (124-132).
Then, I'll start to give it some throttle and watch the AFRs (INT/BLM) and tune F29x to get my fueling where I want it in that range (turn on data tracing to make it easy). I usually start by holding 1200 rpm at idle (in Park) and then 1600 and then 2000. After those are close, I'm confident enough to do some simple driving (usually around the farm - 1200 acres and all private roads, so I don't have to worry about traffic), again tuning to get AFRs that I want (mid 13's at idle, high 15's at cruise, mid 14's at initial throttle tip-in, decreasing somewhat linearly until I see a little boost).
Now, even though I mention how I tune in Closed Loop, it is WAY easier to disable Closed Loop while tuning initial stuff. That way you don't have the trouble of deciphering INT/BLM behavior or having O2 observation masking fueling quirks. Switch it to Open Loop (set KCLTC to 151 degC under scalars - about mid-way down), watch the AFRs and tune for the numbers you want. Once they're close, switch to Closed Loop and observe INT/BLM behavior (live or histogram).
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
OK guys,
so last night me & a friend did some datalogging & noticed the spark advance on the "simple dash" gauge does not correspond to my timing table, example,my timing table says 25 degrees timing @ idle, but the spark advance would read 17.28 degrees, am I missing something here?
I play the recorded idle & driving to W.O.T. , the timing tracer cell does not match the spark advance. Are they supposed to?
I have the correct timing bin @ the top of the page & playback the recorded same timing bin, they do not match @ all.
Thanks
OK guys,
so last night me & a friend did some datalogging & noticed the spark advance on the "simple dash" gauge does not correspond to my timing table, example,my timing table says 25 degrees timing @ idle, but the spark advance would read 17.28 degrees, am I missing something here?
I play the recorded idle & driving to W.O.T. , the timing tracer cell does not match the spark advance. Are they supposed to?
I have the correct timing bin @ the top of the page & playback the recorded same timing bin, they do not match @ all.
Thanks
Last edited:
JSM
Active member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
I thought I saw hood answer this question before. Granted I understand how sometimes what we say can be jibberish.
Short answer is your looking at 1 of MANY timing tables. Probably the main one F1, but there is also one to modify that value based on say Inlet Air Temp IAT sensor, knock retard being used, etc.
So lets say F1 says 25 deg, but the IAT modifier table says if IAT is 150 deg F, pull 4 deg, on top of it your showing 4 degrees of knock (25-4-4=17) bam, the ecm will command 17 degrees, not 25.
I thought I saw hood answer this question before. Granted I understand how sometimes what we say can be jibberish.
Short answer is your looking at 1 of MANY timing tables. Probably the main one F1, but there is also one to modify that value based on say Inlet Air Temp IAT sensor, knock retard being used, etc.
So lets say F1 says 25 deg, but the IAT modifier table says if IAT is 150 deg F, pull 4 deg, on top of it your showing 4 degrees of knock (25-4-4=17) bam, the ecm will command 17 degrees, not 25.
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
Sorry if this has been answered before.
But, Yes, I am looking @ F1 table, it says @ idle 25 degrees, there is no knock retard @ idle & my intake temp is 80 F & the spark advance says 17.28 degrees.
I still dont get it.
Sorry if this has been answered before.
But, Yes, I am looking @ F1 table, it says @ idle 25 degrees, there is no knock retard @ idle & my intake temp is 80 F & the spark advance says 17.28 degrees.
I still dont get it.
WyoSyclone
Active member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
I would take a good timing light and set the offset on it to 25 degrees, leave the tan wire plugged in, and check the timing. It should show zero degrees. If not, adjust the base timing until it does. This may be cause of the timing being off.
I'm looking at your F1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 46 tables now and don't see a reason for your timing to be off. I see a 1.05 offset in your tables, so it could be that your timing is off about 6.6 degrees.
Sorry if this has been answered before.
But, Yes, I am looking @ F1 table, it says @ idle 25 degrees, there is no knock retard @ idle & my intake temp is 80 F & the spark advance says 17.28 degrees.
I still dont get it.
I would take a good timing light and set the offset on it to 25 degrees, leave the tan wire plugged in, and check the timing. It should show zero degrees. If not, adjust the base timing until it does. This may be cause of the timing being off.
I'm looking at your F1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 46 tables now and don't see a reason for your timing to be off. I see a 1.05 offset in your tables, so it could be that your timing is off about 6.6 degrees.
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
Thanks Rob,
So you do see that the F1 table & spark advance do not match?
I was viewing my boost 02 bin my friend sent you & was reading the above values when I played back the datalog. Just When I was @ idle & 0 MPH.
The value in the F1 table does not match the tracer cell that also does not match the spark advance value.
And this is just in a paused datalog, the timing in F1 does not match any tracer cell highlighted, it shows different in the actual spark advance readout.
What table is the offset in? What should I set the offset to? I never did any offset changes in any table.
Thanks Rob,
So you do see that the F1 table & spark advance do not match?
I was viewing my boost 02 bin my friend sent you & was reading the above values when I played back the datalog. Just When I was @ idle & 0 MPH.
The value in the F1 table does not match the tracer cell that also does not match the spark advance value.
And this is just in a paused datalog, the timing in F1 does not match any tracer cell highlighted, it shows different in the actual spark advance readout.
What table is the offset in? What should I set the offset to? I never did any offset changes in any table.
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
Another question is about fuel cut off w/TB closed/decellerating.
When I let off the throttle, from cruising or WOT then let off the throttle, I notice the A/F ratio is rich, about 11.3-11.9 or so range.
What table do I use to shut off the fuel for closed throttle & what range or setting should it be at?
Thanks.
Another question is about fuel cut off w/TB closed/decellerating.
When I let off the throttle, from cruising or WOT then let off the throttle, I notice the A/F ratio is rich, about 11.3-11.9 or so range.
What table do I use to shut off the fuel for closed throttle & what range or setting should it be at?
Thanks.
JSM
Active member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
Decel enleanment tables is where you want to adjust. One is vs delta map or change in map, other is delta throttle (change in throttle position). They are time based in milliseconds of time the ecm will command the injectors to remain off during initial decel.
Values vary greatly, what you want is what the engine wants. Enlean until you get a stumble then back it off a bit so you have smooth tranisitions and not burning a lot of extra fuel during decel.
Decel enleanment tables is where you want to adjust. One is vs delta map or change in map, other is delta throttle (change in throttle position). They are time based in milliseconds of time the ecm will command the injectors to remain off during initial decel.
Values vary greatly, what you want is what the engine wants. Enlean until you get a stumble then back it off a bit so you have smooth tranisitions and not burning a lot of extra fuel during decel.
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
Ok Jeff, I will have to try that, thank you.
I still do not understand something, if my timing table is set @ 30 or whatever degrees I set the timing to (where the tracer cell is) let's just say 30 degrees for now, my spark timing says 17 degrees.
What am I missing here? Should I read 30 degrees timing or?
I unplugged the tan wire w/black strip to check my base timing, it was off 2 degrees advanced, ( I set it there a long time ago for the ultimate chip & forgot about it ) so I set the base timing to 0 degrees.
I input 35 degrees timing where the tracer cell is, & it still reads 17 degrees.
Can you guys help me out?
Thank you.
Much aprreciated.
Ok Jeff, I will have to try that, thank you.
I still do not understand something, if my timing table is set @ 30 or whatever degrees I set the timing to (where the tracer cell is) let's just say 30 degrees for now, my spark timing says 17 degrees.
What am I missing here? Should I read 30 degrees timing or?
I unplugged the tan wire w/black strip to check my base timing, it was off 2 degrees advanced, ( I set it there a long time ago for the ultimate chip & forgot about it ) so I set the base timing to 0 degrees.
I input 35 degrees timing where the tracer cell is, & it still reads 17 degrees.
Can you guys help me out?
Thank you.
Much aprreciated.
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: Tuner pro 5 tracer cell on table screen & TP5RT questions.
Update,
my friend & I tried different settings in these table for Decel enleanment (KDEPMTH, KDETATH, KDFCOSPH
Use Filtered Throttle Decel Logic
Non of those tables seemed to do much.
Only time we saw it go lean & basically stay lean, like the injectors are off is when I would accelerate going down a hill , let let off the throttle , then it would stay lean, but if I was on level ground accelerarate to say 50 mph, then let off the throttle, it would go lean, (most times) but only for about a second, then it seemed like the injectors were fueling off of the F-28 table.
Any help & the specific decel enleanment table is much appreciated, there are about 8 decel enleanment tables to choose from it seems, but not quite sure which is the correct one I should be changing the settings in.
Thanks again.:tup:
Rick
Update,
my friend & I tried different settings in these table for Decel enleanment (KDEPMTH, KDETATH, KDFCOSPH
Use Filtered Throttle Decel Logic
Non of those tables seemed to do much.
Only time we saw it go lean & basically stay lean, like the injectors are off is when I would accelerate going down a hill , let let off the throttle , then it would stay lean, but if I was on level ground accelerarate to say 50 mph, then let off the throttle, it would go lean, (most times) but only for about a second, then it seemed like the injectors were fueling off of the F-28 table.
Any help & the specific decel enleanment table is much appreciated, there are about 8 decel enleanment tables to choose from it seems, but not quite sure which is the correct one I should be changing the settings in.
Thanks again.:tup:
Rick