Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
- Thread starter SuperSy
- Start date
SuperSy
New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
So I swapped out the O2 for another bosch same part number. I also strapped the engine down with a turnbuckle from the alternator bracket to the top of the control arm. From a dead stop the truck runs pretty good, very smooth, although I think it should be doing better. Last run saw 3.5 * KR at the most. This thing still falls on its face when at cruise. I was doing maybe 55mph, eased it into WOT, (no stomping) and it pulled like 12 degrees of timing and felt like my wife's 4cyl Kia. My LTerm counts are still stuck mostly at 150.
http://www.filehosting.org/file/details/459054/New O2 Test.uni
The LTerm counts are not making sense to me; do I need to crank up the fuel pressure?
Could this be tranny related? LTerm counts of 150 tell me it's running lean all the time right? Is my next step the knock sensor? Not looking forward to getting back there.
Thanks for any help
So I swapped out the O2 for another bosch same part number. I also strapped the engine down with a turnbuckle from the alternator bracket to the top of the control arm. From a dead stop the truck runs pretty good, very smooth, although I think it should be doing better. Last run saw 3.5 * KR at the most. This thing still falls on its face when at cruise. I was doing maybe 55mph, eased it into WOT, (no stomping) and it pulled like 12 degrees of timing and felt like my wife's 4cyl Kia. My LTerm counts are still stuck mostly at 150.
http://www.filehosting.org/file/details/459054/New O2 Test.uni
The LTerm counts are not making sense to me; do I need to crank up the fuel pressure?
Could this be tranny related? LTerm counts of 150 tell me it's running lean all the time right? Is my next step the knock sensor? Not looking forward to getting back there.
Thanks for any help
SuperSy
New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
Here's another run with the base fuel pressure turned up to 47 PSI; first dead stop pull was no real change, WOT from 55 mph cruise was a little better, 7.6*kr before the shift. Something happened on the second dead stop run in 3rd gear when it pulled 13* when the TCC locked.
http://www.filehosting.org/file/details/459056/New O2 increased FP.uni
I think I'm going to park the truck for awhile; i think I've had enough punishment for now.
Here's another run with the base fuel pressure turned up to 47 PSI; first dead stop pull was no real change, WOT from 55 mph cruise was a little better, 7.6*kr before the shift. Something happened on the second dead stop run in 3rd gear when it pulled 13* when the TCC locked.
http://www.filehosting.org/file/details/459056/New O2 increased FP.uni
I think I'm going to park the truck for awhile; i think I've had enough punishment for now.
SuperSy
New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
Bypassed the racetronix harness and installed a 15 amp fuse; saw some improvement in cruise and launches. Pretty inconsistent as things heated up, but never saw more than 6* in any situation at about 13 lbs of boost. I'm still seeing Lterm counts in the 140-150 range, which never seem to improve. I had one launch to about 85 mph that was flatline zero knock in first and second until the TCC locked, then spiked to 6 degrees.
So I was looking at a couple of problems:
Incorrect Racetronix install, maybe poor grounding? It was pretty easy to install, I don't see how i could have botched it
TCC lockup issues?
ECM still thinks its lean?
Bypassed the racetronix harness and installed a 15 amp fuse; saw some improvement in cruise and launches. Pretty inconsistent as things heated up, but never saw more than 6* in any situation at about 13 lbs of boost. I'm still seeing Lterm counts in the 140-150 range, which never seem to improve. I had one launch to about 85 mph that was flatline zero knock in first and second until the TCC locked, then spiked to 6 degrees.
So I was looking at a couple of problems:
Incorrect Racetronix install, maybe poor grounding? It was pretty easy to install, I don't see how i could have botched it
TCC lockup issues?
ECM still thinks its lean?
SuperSy
New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
Did another drive and the problem came back. Little to no knock (0-2*) until TCC lockup in third, then it pulls all the timing, I'm talking 15-16 degrees. The TCC locks up pretty hard.
Kicked it down at cruise, TCC locks and then it pulls 10.5 degrees. All at 13 lbs of boost.
Any way around this? Can I delay the lockup until overdrive?
Did another drive and the problem came back. Little to no knock (0-2*) until TCC lockup in third, then it pulls all the timing, I'm talking 15-16 degrees. The TCC locks up pretty hard.
Kicked it down at cruise, TCC locks and then it pulls 10.5 degrees. All at 13 lbs of boost.
Any way around this? Can I delay the lockup until overdrive?
Don W.
Stab it and steer it
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
On the Racetronics start at the alt. Open and inspect the fuse. Everything begins there. The just follow everything back. Ground issue possible but also double check the wiring at the pump. Disconnect, inspect and reconnect the Weathepac connectors. Grounding connector to frame or? must be polished clean for a good connection. Might want to check resitance and voltage.
Important. What are alt output volts?
I'm amazed my truck ran awhile back. Alt was putting out <13v with no load. Jeeze
Personally I wouldn't go any further until you can verify fuel pressure under boost.
And I doubt TC lockup is part of this.
On the Racetronics start at the alt. Open and inspect the fuse. Everything begins there. The just follow everything back. Ground issue possible but also double check the wiring at the pump. Disconnect, inspect and reconnect the Weathepac connectors. Grounding connector to frame or? must be polished clean for a good connection. Might want to check resitance and voltage.
Important. What are alt output volts?
I'm amazed my truck ran awhile back. Alt was putting out <13v with no load. Jeeze
Personally I wouldn't go any further until you can verify fuel pressure under boost.
And I doubt TC lockup is part of this.
SuperSy
New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
I'll try to get a longer hose for my fuel pressure gauge.
jeepruby04
New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
I haven't looked at your DM files but from your description of symptoms it sounds like real knock issues. You seem to get the most knock after TC lock up which puts a greater load on the engine.
Here are some suggestions:
1. Verify fuel pressure with boost (as mentioned before)
2. Check the condition of the catalytic converter, might be partially plugged
3. Try running a stock chip
4. Try UR6 plugs
5. Change knock sensor (as mentioned before)
6. Verify base timing is 0* (make sure balancer has not spun)
These are not in any particular order. I like to do free stuff first.
I haven't looked at your DM files but from your description of symptoms it sounds like real knock issues. You seem to get the most knock after TC lock up which puts a greater load on the engine.
Here are some suggestions:
1. Verify fuel pressure with boost (as mentioned before)
2. Check the condition of the catalytic converter, might be partially plugged
3. Try running a stock chip
4. Try UR6 plugs
5. Change knock sensor (as mentioned before)
6. Verify base timing is 0* (make sure balancer has not spun)
These are not in any particular order. I like to do free stuff first.
SuperSy
New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
I also tested the fuel pressure under boost; idles at 38 psi (base 45#) then climbs with boost up to ~55 psi and holds.
Boost is 13 lbs. Is this what it's supposed to be?
Timing re-verified at 0*.
Still getting about 9* knock retard and Lterms are still stuck at 140-150 all the time.
Would a spun harmonic balancer (ncorrect timing) cause the truck to run lean?
I pulled the bed again and checked all the hoses and connections. I relocated the racetronix ground to another bolt and polished up both grounds and bolts with a wire wheel.
I also tested the fuel pressure under boost; idles at 38 psi (base 45#) then climbs with boost up to ~55 psi and holds.
Boost is 13 lbs. Is this what it's supposed to be?
Timing re-verified at 0*.
Still getting about 9* knock retard and Lterms are still stuck at 140-150 all the time.
Would a spun harmonic balancer (ncorrect timing) cause the truck to run lean?
Don W.
Stab it and steer it
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
Yes on the FP. Pound for pound FP/boost.
Balancers do slip on these motors. What you can do is retard the timing a bit. It is not cast in stone that the timing be set exactly at 0. Retard it bit, say 2* and see what happens.
Find some race gas somewhere, add a few gallons and see if knock goes away. If it does then you know you don't have false knock.
Yes on the FP. Pound for pound FP/boost.
Balancers do slip on these motors. What you can do is retard the timing a bit. It is not cast in stone that the timing be set exactly at 0. Retard it bit, say 2* and see what happens.
Find some race gas somewhere, add a few gallons and see if knock goes away. If it does then you know you don't have false knock.
Don W.
Stab it and steer it
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
Here's what I found. Keep us posted.
http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50844&highlight=intake+gasket
Here's what I found. Keep us posted.
http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50844&highlight=intake+gasket
SuperSy
New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
Thanks Don for all the help; I pulled the manifold tonight, gasket looked pretty bad up front, and the egr port was almost completely plugged. I ordered new gaskets, new knock sensor, oil pressure sender, and I'll probably do the valve seals while I've got it apart, as it does smoke alot on startup sometimes. Any other suggestions while I've got it apart?
SuperSy
New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
Mine looked about the same, except exhaust on #4 was 95% plugged with carbon.
Mine looked about the same, except exhaust on #4 was 95% plugged with carbon.
Don W.
Stab it and steer it
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
While it's this far apart knock sensor and oil pres sender are probably good ideas only because they are such a bear to change otherwise. Especially the knock sensor. Seals while heads are on the block? Never done that but folks do it, good idea at this point. You just have to decide on a stopping place or soon you'll have the motor out. :rotf:
It occurs to me that some of your issues might be related to the EGR valve. Maybe replace? At least clean the passages.
HTH
While it's this far apart knock sensor and oil pres sender are probably good ideas only because they are such a bear to change otherwise. Especially the knock sensor. Seals while heads are on the block? Never done that but folks do it, good idea at this point. You just have to decide on a stopping place or soon you'll have the motor out. :rotf:
It occurs to me that some of your issues might be related to the EGR valve. Maybe replace? At least clean the passages.
HTH
SuperSy
New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard
Update:
Got the truck back together after installing:
Felpro 1202 intake gaskets
New upper intake plenum gasket
throttle body gasket
Valve cover gaskets
Felpro valve seals
New Robert Shaw 160 T-Stat
New knock, oil pressure, and coolant temp sensors
New NGK UR6 plugs gapped to .030
all fasteners torqued to spec
also:
Set valve lash (while running) 1/2 turn after 0 lash
removed pass side inner fender
Adjusted wastegate rod, 1 full turn looser (less boost), reattached stock controller
Set timing to 0*
Drained coolant, readded fresh prestone 50/50 plus 8 oz RMI 25, few oz to IC as well
Changed oil, cheap dino oil for first few hundred miles
Internal engine cleaning with spray bottle and distilled water into the intake
I haven't done any hard driving yet, but the truck feels strong and very smooth, no more smoke on startup, no hesitation, exhaust even sounds deeper and more "racey".
I'm going to continue to drive it easy for the next few days, then I'll datalog some WOT, after I put synthetic oil back in it.
Update:
Got the truck back together after installing:
Felpro 1202 intake gaskets
New upper intake plenum gasket
throttle body gasket
Valve cover gaskets
Felpro valve seals
New Robert Shaw 160 T-Stat
New knock, oil pressure, and coolant temp sensors
New NGK UR6 plugs gapped to .030
all fasteners torqued to spec
also:
Set valve lash (while running) 1/2 turn after 0 lash
removed pass side inner fender
Adjusted wastegate rod, 1 full turn looser (less boost), reattached stock controller
Set timing to 0*
Drained coolant, readded fresh prestone 50/50 plus 8 oz RMI 25, few oz to IC as well
Changed oil, cheap dino oil for first few hundred miles
Internal engine cleaning with spray bottle and distilled water into the intake
I haven't done any hard driving yet, but the truck feels strong and very smooth, no more smoke on startup, no hesitation, exhaust even sounds deeper and more "racey".
I'm going to continue to drive it easy for the next few days, then I'll datalog some WOT, after I put synthetic oil back in it.