Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

SuperSy

New member
I'm getting hellacious KR especially on the freeway if I get into the throttle at cruising speed. The truck is bad but not horrible from standstill in first and 2nd gear. KR varies from 2-5 degrees maybe, sometimes 0. Upon shift into 3rd, KR shoots up to about 8 degrees. What is killing me is if I'm cruising on the freeway and then floor it, it will downshift and then fall on its face. ECM pulls all timing and I get a whopping 14-16 degrees of KR. The amount of knock that im getting from a stop is annoying too, because I'm not running that much boost, 10-12 lbs at most. I'm using california 91 octane. I'm willing to live with 2-5 degrees down low, but this garbage on the freeway is killing me.
An important thing to note is I've owned this truck for about 5 years and I had tuned it up and running good shortly after I bought it, then I put it into storage for 3 years. A lot of what I've done has vastly improved driveability(it wasn't streetable after I pulled it out).
Here's what I've done to the truck so far to try to remedy this issue:
36,000 miles on the truck, mostly stock
In the last month:
Fresh tuneup
ICE ignition wires, Borg warner brass cap and rotor
NGK UR5 gapped at .032
Base timing set at 0
Stock injectors hypersonically cleaned and flow matched
Walbro 255liter fuel pump installed with racetronix hotwire kit
Adjustable FPR, base fuel pressure set to 45psi (I've had it up to 50, no change)
Fresh fuel filter
boostvalve adjusted between 6-13 psi(tried different boost levels) With stock boost controller hooked up boost would spike to about 15.3 psi. I do plan on adjusting the wastegate rod at some point, using the boostvalve to limit boost for now.
tranny filter changed and refilled, all fluids changed
Hood tuned 2 bar chip.
Strapped downpipe heatshield, insulated lines running past knock sensor, heater hose lines on all the tranny bell housing lines.
Tried 100 octane before the fuel pump install, similar results, things did improve slightly with the new fuel pump, removed 2-3 degrees of retard.
I record all my runs with Datamaster: http://www.filehosting.org/file/details/458881/new fuel filter test.uni
Thanks for any advice but I feel I'm running out of things to try.
 

SuperSy

New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

Its not getting past 14 psi though and usually in the 11-13 range, i don't get it.
 

Jimmy

Banned
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

Its not getting past 14 psi though and usually in the 11-13 range, i don't get it.

I cant look at the DM file but I'm sure somebody will.

What do the IAT temps look like? How much vacuum does it pull at idle?
 

SuperSy

New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

I cant look at the DM file but I'm sure somebody will.

What do the IAT temps look like? How much vacuum does it pull at idle?

Vacuum at idle in gear is 17 "hg

Intake air temps are 116 to 125 degrees,(middle of the day) it does pretty much the same thing at night with 80-90 degree iat temps.

I just put half a tank of 100 octane in, mixed with about a 3rd tank of 91, to try to drown any knock out. I couldn't get it to reproduce the insane freeway kickdown KR. Too much San Diego traffic. I did one kickdown at 65, it maintained 12 psi boost for about 6 sec, with 0 KR. Still hits almost 7 * KR in 3rd gear on a dead stop pull at only 12 # of boost. I just wish this truck would run better than this. I'm going to work on an engine tiedown strap tonight.
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

Well a couple questions come to mind. Fuel pressure? Regardless of your mods FP must follow boost pound for pound. If it's not you're going way lean which would probably cause this. Check that the sense line to the FPR goes from the FPR to a T and over to the MAP sensor and from the T up to the back of the manifold, And nowhere else because you can loose rapid response. Also leaks, bad hose, cut hose.

Your short and long term counts are all over the map but lean. The question is why? Bad o2? It's one thing you haven't changed... :) Reset the ECM, pull the A&B fuses, I can never remember which. and test again.

Maybe a bad MAP sensor? Dunno but the more I look I'd start with fuel pressure under boost.

HTH a bit.
 

SuperSy

New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

Well a couple questions come to mind. Fuel pressure? Regardless of your mods FP must follow boost pound for pound. If it's not you're going way lean which would probably cause this. Check that the sense line to the FPR goes from the FPR to a T and over to the MAP sensor and from the T up to the back of the manifold, And nowhere else because you can loose rapid response. Also leaks, bad hose, cut hose.

Your short and long term counts are all over the map but lean. The question is why? Bad o2? It's one thing you haven't changed... :) Reset the ECM, pull the A&B fuses, I can never remember which. and test again.

Maybe a bad MAP sensor? Dunno but the more I look I'd start with fuel pressure under boost.

HTH a bit.

I can say that I've only checked and adjusted base fuel pressure at idle. Right now its at 45 (no vac) lbs, I've had it as high as 50 (no vac), with no difference. I'll pick up a longer fuel tester line for my guage so I can watch it while im driving. The vac lines are all brand new, but the sensors are stock original. I'll do another run tonight after I check the lines again.

Thanks for checking out my dm file.
 

SuperSy

New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

I just looked at inj duty cycle under boost. It's well into the 90s. You have a point.
Sitting that long wasn't good for anything on this truck...Had the injectors sent off and tested and cleaned a few months ago, all tested before and after cleaning and flow very close to the same. I do have a spare bosch o2 sensor, I can throw it in to see if anything changes. I checked the map/FPR tee, everything is hooked up correctly, new silicone vac lines.
 

berzerker

wookie
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

i would try a new gm knock sensor . sounds like your getting inaccurate knock signals hence the knock retard . I've had this issue before due to faulty knock sensor . my2C
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

RE knock sensor replacement. A new one should come with "thread locker" on it. Torque to 14 ftlbs. Important because more or less changes the sensitivity.
 

SuperSy

New member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

Have you checked out your motor mounts and trans mount for ware?
Motor mounts look good to me, I did have a bolt missing (wtf?)in one of the mounts for the tranny, (transfer case crossmember, i think) I put a new bolt in yesterday. I am putting together a turnbuckle tiedown with parts from home depot, I'll put that in this weekend.

Did another run this morning with a new map sensor I picked up this morning:
http://www.filehosting.org/file/details/458955/New Map Sensor Test.uni

No difference with a new MAP sensor, still seeing upwards of 8* KR. Pulls are being done from a roll or cruising. Next step is putting in the O2 sensor.
 

atkonkler

Is this your bush?
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

What's the knock gm knock sensor part number or would it be wise to get one from oreallys.....vatozone or Crapa?
 

Damian

Member
Re: Crazy Freeway Knock Retard

A Vatozone one will work, but I've gone through a couple of them in less than a 1000 miles.
 
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