Gear ratio thoughts

[junny]

what would the best gearing ratio for the fastest quarter mile runs on a syclone with 26 inch tires,mild build up 382awhp,stock gearing right now, just got the engine all dialed in now want to get the gearing on target.not a daily driver, not a weekend truck,just a drive to the race and rip the quarter mile type truck.

running a fully built 700r with 3200 stalll converter

this is the first awd i have done,not real sure on the gearing setup and its a big job so i am only looking to do it once.

chime in and let me know what you guys who have track trucks think

 

[Philntex]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

What does the power curve look like? (Peak HP/RPM) What are your shift RPM points?

 

[UR50SLO]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

Almost all Turbo cars that I'm aware of like to be "Loaded" so the stock gears are good at 3:42's

The more power you make the less gear you'll need. So the next step would be taller tires or 3:23's.

Or down to 3:08's.

GN's that switch from 3:42's to 3:73's slow down 3tenths.. I'm sure the same would happen on a Sy/Ty.

Less gear is the best way..or taller tire.
~Scott

 

[JSM]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

I would say your new to syty world if your asking about gears.

Being new is not bad but you will find 99% of syty owners never change a gear. The couple that have I know of ended up going back to stock gears. GM did get gear ratio right IMO.

 

[socal]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

Last thing i would change would be the gears.

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

running a built 700R manual valve body,have not setup shift points as of yet,just got the engine back together and all dialed in and back into the truck.yup i am new to syclones,this is a new type monster for me,never built a awd turbo before,always had sbc and bbc before.track will open in feb and i am looking to have everything done and finished by then.

i am making power right upto 5100 then starts dropping off.

gearing IS the last thing i am going to change,everything else is done.

i am not like 99% of the owners here,i am the 1% that is building a drive to the track race truck only,i dont care how she drives on the street,i am looking for the right gearing for the quickest et only.

99% of owners drive there truck on the street,99% of owners would not want to do a gearing change because of the cost factor and the work involved. these do not apply here to me


i would like to hear from only people who have changed the gearing out please,owners who have built straight track trucks and that have played with the gearing and know first hand what works,not someones guess or opinion that has not done it first hand.

gearing is a major factor in any type drag racing,its how the power gets to the ground.

i dont mean to offend anyone but gearing is to expensive to do twice. need real answers on this one

 

[warmpancakes]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

manual valve body, 5100 RPM, and 382 HP something isnt making sense

 

[sy#2716]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

I would listen to the advise that people are given you. We have been around these trucks for along time and know what works and doesn't work.

There is only a hand fully of guys that have changed gears. Most of them do not have a 700r4 in the truck any more most have gone either th400/80e. The others that have done a gear swap are not AWD anymore they are strickly RWD and that is a totally different animal dealing with gearing.

But feel free to do what you want your truck your waste of money. There are lot of fast trucks on here that are street driven that have stock gears in them. I don't know what your goals are inthe 1/4 but making <400awhp you will only net maybe a mid 11 sec pass with the right suspension set up.

The search button will be your best friend.

 

[UR50SLO]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

i would like to hear from only people who have changed the gearing out please,owners who have built straight track trucks and that have played with the gearing and know first hand what works,not someones guess or opinion that has not done it first hand.

gearing is a major factor in any type drag racing,its how the power gets to the ground.

Again... the more power in a turbo vehicle regardless of engine or body the less gear you need.

My Camaro started out with 3:89's.. went down to 3:50's for several years not loosing any 60' but picking up 4mph with same boost.. now it has 3:25's. Picked up a few more mph and no 60' time loss.

From the sounds of it you should have tossed that 700R in the garbage and put a TH400 in if it's going to be a race truck 700R's will break no matter who puts them together with the best parts. It's just not a durable transmisson for racing. Since you don't need OD for the street the TH400 is the best choice.
There is somthing else going on if your power is dropping off after 5100rpm too.
Gears are the least of your worries with that low of HP to be going to the track only.
~Scott

 

[NorwegianTy]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

Robert (aka. mr syclone) did use to change between 3.08 and 3.42, but he is the only one I know of that is awd and swaps gears, but a 1300+hp and a 380 hp truck doesnt have to much in commen.

My truck mainly used for the track and only 1/8 mile, probebly in the same power area as you at this time, also running a manual valve body and havent felt like I need to do anythings with the gears. With awd lower gears are direction most people consider going tough.

Anyways good luck with your build and like you said the fastest trucks (or in this case a pure race truck) are usually not like everyone else.

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

my peak power is 382@5100 rpm strapped to an awd dyno,she will pull much higher then that but no need to rev that high if i dont have to,somewhere in the mid 5's will be shift points,two reasons for the 700r,first is because i build them and know them inside and out,i build and run them behind big blocks running much more hp and torque of this build,i also know i can push well over 500lbs of torque into one of my 700r's and it will handle every drop if shifted correctly,the trans is not a problem here trust me,second reason for the 700r is because the truck will be driven highway speeds 40 miles each way to the track give or take depending which track i goto that weekend,towing or trailing a car is not what i am about.
anyone who douts the power handling of a proper built 700r is just a fool that has never owned one,i am a tranny builder by trade,my favorite is --- you guessed it 700r.

this truck also has serious weigh reductions,fiberglass bed,hood,fenders,windows are lexan.
i am looking for an end result of a single digit pass when all is said and done(the 382 was on 14psi on a turbonectics bb,we can increase psi later on).

i have learned alot about these trucks from reading here which was great,but i also see alot of people giving advice on things they have never done,which for me is bad.i have a dozen post of opinions above but not one of them has ever done gearing change so there is no way any of them know first hand how a syclone reacts to it,i would not tell anyone what to do unless i have done it myself and know for a fact what the end result was.if you have not driven a syclone with 4:11 or 3:08 down the track then how can you even answer any of my questions about how these trucks react to regearing.

now as stated in my very first post

"chime in and let me know what you guys who have track trucks think"

this is not a question for anyone who drives a street truck,not a question for a opinion,not a question for anyone who has not done it.

please dont flame because i hurt your feelings,dont bash because you are mad now,dont waste my post with kiddie stuff please,only answer if you have a track truck and you have changed out the gearing for quarter mile.

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

thanks nor,who is robert? do you know his forum name so i can contact him?

 

[NorwegianTy]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

thanks nor,who is robert? do you know his forum name so i can contact him?

His forum name is mrsyclone, he is not always so active here, chime in from time to time when he has some news to share... You will probebly have better luck with his friend anders, dont remember his forum name right now..

 

[Windedv6]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

I am with Scott on this. With a turbo setup you will want to go lower gears depending on your final rpm at trap speed and how you load it out of the gate. I have been racing my Tys for as long as about anyone on the board so i would say there some experience here at several different hp levels Back in the mid 90s I was running a moded bolt on setup with a stock short block and stock heads in the 12 second range. My shift points were in the low 5,000 rpms and I used 4th gear (700r4) with the stock 3.42 gears and 26" tires.

In the late 90s I was running a vortec head setup and larger turbo running in the low12s and high 11s. In 2001 I went with a higher hp bowtie build and went to a 6,000 rpm trap speed in 3 gear. I tried 28" tires and it slowed me down out of the gate so I went back to 26" tires.

In 2004 I went to a bigger turbo, different intake and some other mods and went high/mid 10s at 6,200 rpm trap speeds with 3.42 gears in third gear with a built 700r4.

In 2009 I went bigger on the turbo, big Brodix heads, cam change etc, Trap speed around 6,400 rpm but was starting to slip out of the gate. Instead of changing tire height or final gear so to not effect my trap rpm, I change to a 2.48 first gear trans setup. It loads great out of the gate and has the power curve intact for the big end.

Although I didn't change out my drive gearsets I did play around with tire size and first gear ratios. Good thing you can rebuild 700r4. You will surly do it a few times.

John

John

 

[JSM]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

I guess you assuming I don't know shit about these trucks from the post above which is fine.

I won't tell you I helped send Robert a spare front diff he used for the 3.08 or parts that went in it. I am one of the few that have been behind the drivers seat of Roberts truck (granted not down the strip).

380hp I've made on a stock motor.

I will go back in my hole and sit back and watch.

 

[ziembic]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

my peak power is 382@5100 rpm strapped to an awd dyno,she will pull much higher then that but no need to rev that high if i dont have to,somewhere in the mid 5's will be shift points,two reasons for the 700r,first is because i build them and know them inside and out,i build and run them behind big blocks running much more hp and torque of this build,i also know i can push well over 500lbs of torque into one of my 700r's and it will handle every drop if shifted correctly,the trans is not a problem here trust me,second reason for the 700r is because the truck will be driven highway speeds 40 miles each way to the track give or take depending which track i goto that weekend,towing or trailing a car is not what i am about.
anyone who douts the power handling of a proper built 700r is just a fool that has never owned one,i am a tranny builder by trade,my favorite is --- you guessed it 700r.

this truck also has serious weigh reductions,fiberglass bed,hood,fenders,windows are lexan.
i am looking for an end result of a single digit pass when all is said and done(the 382 was on 14psi on a turbonectics bb,we can increase psi later on).

i have learned alot about these trucks from reading here which was great,but i also see alot of people giving advice on things they have never done,which for me is bad.i have a dozen post of opinions above but not one of them has ever done gearing change so there is no way any of them know first hand how a syclone reacts to it,i would not tell anyone what to do unless i have done it myself and know for a fact what the end result was.if you have not driven a syclone with 4:11 or 3:08 down the track then how can you even answer any of my questions about how these trucks react to regearing.

now as stated in my very first post

"chime in and let me know what you guys who have track trucks think"

this is not a question for anyone who drives a street truck,not a question for a opinion,not a question for anyone who has not done it.

please dont flame because i hurt your feelings,dont bash because you are mad now,dont waste my post with kiddie stuff please,only answer if you have a track truck and you have changed out the gearing for quarter mile.

I haven't gone very fast in my truck. Fastest pass (make that only pass) is 15.9 @ 90 when I was learning how to tune. That being said you are contradicting yourself a couple of different ways. You say you want opinions on the best gears for 1/4 mile pass, then you talk about driving on the highway. Can't have your cake and eat it to. Second, you talk about peak power of 382, then you say "we can increase the psi later on", one or the other bud, not both. If you want an opinion on something don't make it so convoluted.

 

[sy#2716]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

Like Jeff, Scott and John have said you need to look at other things besides a gear to do what you want. I am glad that you build 700's that will hold 500ft but there are alot of trucks that have been on dyno's with simple bolt ons making that power and if your truck with boost truned up makes say 450hp then you are looking at 650tq or so becasue these motors are tq monsters.

Like i said before you need to read into things alot more than start changing things. I will tell you i have a decently quick truck and will not change gear's in it. I street drive mine about as much as you do (since you drive yours to the track and i trailer mine just incase something breaks i can put it back on the trailer and take it home).

There are only a handful of trucks that are in single digits might as well in the 10's. You asked for help and John, Jeff, and Scott have all given you their inputs and they have been around these trucks for a very long time (IIRC John has has his since 93 or so and has been one of the fastest guys on the board for a very long time).

If you don't want to listen to our input try what you think will work and let us know how it goes.

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

john that is some of the best info i could have asked for and the first gear change is something i have been considering also,now that i have someone who tried it this will be in the mix.
the tire changes you did act exactly like gearing changes,going from a 26 inch tall tire to a 28 inch tall tire is the same as going from 3.42 to a 3.15 ratio gearing change,which slowed you down out of the hole and thats what i am trying to figure out.thank you for the info john.

twinturbo i dont want to get into a peepee match with you,its gets us no where,you can laugh at my 382 mild built motor and tell how you made 380 on stock like you are some type god because of it,the difference is my motor is not working overtime and not being pushed to its limits where as a stock motor making 380 to the wheels is stressing and just waiting for failure,380awhp stock motor,thats the easy backyarder way ,bolt on a big turbo and injectors and have fun until it blows,thats not me,i would rather do it right the first time and build a engine that can handle the stress a quarter mile track can do.
you make it seem like your 8000 posts give you some type credit about these trucks and how they need to be built,sorry i dont take how many posts a person has into how much they know about something.to me you were just another opinion that didnt do it himself but counldnt wait to tell me how it should be and how i am new and 99% dont do gears.8000 posts and you figure you could read the question i posted clearly and see it was ment for people with track trucks that played with gearing first hand.next time try not to be so quick to belittle someone about the questions they ask.

so far i have been told i am a newby because i asked about gears,i have been told 99% of owners dont do gears because they all know better,been told my trans choice sucks and to throw it in the garbage and go th400,been told i have other problems to worry about if i am only making peak hp at 5100 rpm,been told "manual valve body, 5100 RPM, and 382 HP something isnt making sense" been told people make 380 on stock motors like my build aint shit. been told 400awhp is only good for mid 11 second passes before he even knew about the rest of my build or the truck weight.

two people so far have help,winded gave the most help, because he has played with gearing,norweg tried to help by telling me about a member that did it.

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

i am not contradicting myself at all,i didnt ask for opinions from daily drivers who never did gearing changes,i ask for guys with track trucks to chime in,that does not mean everyone with an opinion can tell me how it should be when they never did gearing on a track truck,i talk about highway driving because that is how i get there and that is why i run a 700r,there is no cake and eating it to.what i said was the truck made 382awhp just got everything dialed in,just giving basic info for the truck,as with anyone with a built engine uping the boost will give higher numbers,its no secret.i am dialed in at an easy 382.

sy2716 gearing is all i have left to do,engines built,fuel system done,trans is done,cooling system done,suspension done,discs all around,,weight reduction done,i got paint and gearing left.
john helped, jeff and scott have pretty much only bashed my build,but none of them have done gearing changes to there own trucks so they do not have first hand what the truck will react like,so instead they bash my build when i call them on it.like i stated a dozen times,i wanted people who have done it to track trucks to chime in,not guessers

 

[gkrcr882]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

The main issue isn't the torque handling capability of the transmission, its the shock load from a hard launch. The AWD is what breaks things (propshafts, planetaries, etc). IMO the best way to optimize your setup with the least amount of downtime (and aggravation) is to try different diameter tire/wheel combinations before diving into the differentials. These trucks rely on huge torque for low 60' times and high horsepower to combat the aerodynamic drag at high speeds.