Gear ratio thoughts

[qbnkiller]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

I am another person that is going to come out here to tell you that gearing change at your level is not necessarily the way to go.

UR50SLO has written a couple times here that it may not be the wisest move to change your gearing. TTV8TY has also mentioned his feelings on this, but your heavy-handedness dismisses him. John (WindedV6) gives you similar information the previous two others do and you thank him. Take the time and read carefully what John posted, and you may understand what he is trying to say. I want to be sure you understand that the info John gave you is the SAME as what Scott and Jeff gave you - the only difference is the first-gear ratio change. If you change your tire size or gearing in the front and rear, you change everything.

Scott and Jeff are very saavy with respect to our trucks (as is John). Dont think that just because their post count is what it is, they are internet racers. If you do so, you will be sorely disappointed when you face them at the track (or on the street).

I will support what all three forum members have written here - at your level, a gearing change may not be the most wise move. If you have the ability to build the 700R4 trans to handle the torque our engines build, then just turn that little knob up until the boost created reaches the power level congruent with the ET you want. After a few hard launches, you will see that the 700 is not the most economical tranny to achieve the ET goal you want.

...go ahead...throw me under the bus if you like, but if you plan on kicking a bull in the ass, you better have a plan for its horns!!

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

Having read your thread, I don't really see why anyone would want to help you.

You've had 6 posts and already insulted some pretty well known and respected people on here or dismissed their advice.

No "Hi guys, this is me, I live here, etc" just gimme gimme gimme.

It's a community here and when you break stuff and want parts or advice on other things, you'll need some help I imagine. Might be an idea to tread a little more carefully?

Maybe they haven't done the EXACT build on the gears/trans/engine you want but you could try being a little more accommodating.

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

lets get this correct, scoot told me first that gn's loose time by changing to more gears and he is sure the same should happen with a syclone,so less gear is the way to go3.23 or 3.08,this right here as you can see is a complete opinion with no real world results to back this up.this is why i dismissed this guy,i didnt ask for a guess based off of rwd gn cars,which is exactly what this is.

as for twinturbo he belittled me right off the bat and gave me another opinion that gearing is perfect and i am just a newbie.

then others decided to jump in and bash my build as if its wrong,tell me what i can and cant do way before i even started giving it back to everyone but yet you say i should be nicer and more accommodating when everyone jumped on me first? are you nuts? i lay down for no one,i dont eat shit no matter whos passing it out,you want my respect you earn it,post numbers dont show me anything.

 

[eviltwin]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

I'm just gonna call this as I see it. The most informed people on this site are giving you advice and you talk crap because it's not what you want to hear. You sir are an ass

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

if you plan on kicking a bull in the ass, you better have a plan for its horns!!

I'm gonna have to work this into my daily conversation, thanks Alex. :tup: As for the rest of the thread, opcorn2:

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

johns advice showed that changing the gearing to a 3.15 ratio slowed his truck down, which is the exact opposite of what scott and jeff said,what post are you reading.

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

this is getting funny now qb send me some of that weed your smoking

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

the facts are,i asked for track truck builders who have done gearing to chime in on what works for a 26 inch tire with a 700r,
what i got was guesses from most people and then while they were guessing on what gearing works they bashed my build every way they can,told me all my shit is wrong and chuck shit in the garbage and i got bigger problems then gearing,then when i got offened at these same people and give it back to them then they get all pissy and cry like bitches and then i am the bad guy of course because i didnt stand here and take it.

 

[qbnkiller]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

Hey man...do whatcha want. The people who posted have done so from either first-hand experience or from hearing it from the fast guys who will NOT post on any forum. Beeledat!

As I stated, it is FAR easier to turn up the boost than it is to change the gearing. You said it yourself that the engine does not lie down over 5100rpm, you just dont want to 'push it that hard'. The torque you create may get you going at the very beginning (especially with your 3.08 first-gear), but you will definitely need more HP to get your single-digit ET. If you were to believe HP calculators out there (like on Waller Racing), a 3,000# vehicle with a 9.99 ET would need 493RWHP. That would also require a 1.27 60'. Add the additional losses through AWD to that, as well as aerodynamic losses and converter slip at the big end.

If you still think that (A) anyone is going to post in here acknowledging anything other than what has been posted to this point, or (B) that we are all a bunch of know-nothing internet hacks, then by all means go out there and change your gearsets and prove us wrong.

For the record - I have not changed my gearset from the stock 3.42:1. I do have a TH400 with the 2.48:1 first-gear. If you want to simulate something similar, leave in second gear with your 700 (1.63:1).

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

qb funny how you tip toed around how before you stated that all three stated the exact same thing and you wanted to be sure i understood that ALL THREE said that EXACT same thing but how i only gave john credit.not gonna touch that one are ya buddy,keep tip toeing dont admit when you were completely wrong

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

Regardless of how much excrement you refuse to eat, you're not doing yourself any favours. Respect cuts both ways - I am sure you're a decent guy (owning a SyTy is a step in the right direction ) but right now you appear confrontational.

I think the points that are being made are being lost. Your truck is not fast enough right now to warrant changing the gear sets.

You mentioned power dropping off at 5100 RPM suggesting you want to keep a lower gear set, against John's advice but in line with Scott and Jeff, but you say that your build is mild and you can turn the boost up.

I don't know what your experience is of tuning but perhaps you might want to max out your current setup before you mess with gears which appeasr not to have been done for varying reasons.

Your torque curve/power curve is still an unknown and may work for you, it may not.

With 1 or two posts, Jeff was right - you are new to SyTy world - have you got experience with other AWD turbo vehicles? It may be transferable but with each car there are idiosyncrasies and these are some of the best and most experienced owners on here.

Respect does indeed have to be earned but the guys have tried to be helpful and you're dismissing them and shoving it back in their faces.

Now there is an atmosphere of acrimony and I don't think anyone is going to shine in it - you're defensive and pissed and they're justifiably uninterested I would guess.

They WANT to help you - doesn't hurt to just ignore a post and say: "Thanks, but who has actually done it?"

You don't need to engage in a disagreement. That's a great thing about opinions - everyone has one, you don't have to listen to them all.

And you can just ignore me too if you like. Onviously.

Can I start by saying - welcome to the forum, there are a lot of friendly people here with a hell of a lot of knowledge. I hope you find it and can perhaps share some of your own.

Mark

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

quote from qb " I want to be sure you understand that the info John gave you is the SAME as what Scott and Jeff gave you"

get out of this one qb,you felt the need to jump on the band wagon and belittle me like i am stupid so explain this one,think hard i'll wait

 

[qbnkiller]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

hey man.. I know what all the other guys have said. I also know all three guys personally. I also know guys that have done exactly what you are asking for opinions on, and have changed back to the 3.42:1 gearset. Scott and John both said that loading a turbo vehicle is beneficial, but the entire build needs to support it (heads/cam/turbo/exhaust/tune). We know nothing other than what you said that you have a 'full build'. People on this forum are a bit incredulous because we have heard the same story time and time again from countless others before. If you are in that 1% that are different, please share your knowledge/build/finding with us.

As I said - do what you feel you want. Come back here and tell us how ****ed in the head we all are once you have a slip and video to prove your point. Until that time, you should hear what we are saying.

 

[qbnkiller]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

I am with Scott on this. With a turbo setup you will want to go lower gears depending on your final rpm at trap speed and how you load it out of the gate. I have been racing my Tys for as long as about anyone on the board so i would say there some experience here at several different hp levels.

..is that clear enough for you? If you dont believe me, just scroll up to Jogn's own post and read it in his own writing.

Again - dont kick a bull in the ass if you dont have a plan for its horns.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

Again... the more power in a turbo vehicle regardless of engine or body the less gear you need.

~Scott

I am with Scott on this. With a turbo setup you will want to go lower gears depending on your final rpm at trap speed and how you load it out of the gate. .....

John

. The couple that have I know of ended up going back to stock gears. GM did get gear ratio right IMO.

QBN was right Junny...

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

mark very nice post,nice to meet you,yes i did get confrontational after the bashing and the acting like i am some idiot who is going the wrong way,i am trying to get every ounce of speed from this build and i am and do believe i will hit single digits this coming year.mark only reason i am dismissing them is because they bashed and they guessed,which john pretty much showed that scotts theory on 3.08 would slow the truck down.so mark can we say that scotts guess that was based off of gn cars is bad info,i think we can because john proved it with his tires in real world testing.
i take builds serious mark,even tho this would be my first syclone i have built and raced for 25 years,i have been into the 8''s on a few track only cars,and street cars that run 10's all day 200 runs without cracking open a motor.i know how to squeeze every ounce without going to far.
for this build and for what i am looking for all tricks will have to be used and if changing gearing will give me 2 tenths then its worth it.i will be well under 3000lbs when all is said and done.

 

[qbnkiller]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

...then with all your experience, you should have no issues reaching your single-digit goal! Good luck, and let us know how it all ends up.

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

john stated cold hard facts quote " In 2001 I went with a higher hp bowtie build and went to a 6,000 rpm trap speed in 3 gear. I tried 28" tires and it slowed me down out of the gate so I went back to 26" tires. " this is the equivilent of going from the stock 3.42 to a 3.15 ratio,it slowed johns truck down.

scotts stated quote "The more power you make the less gear you'll need. So the next step would be taller tires or 3:23's.

Or down to 3:08's. complete guess,this is where he states its based off of grand national cars.scott quote "GN's that switch from 3:42's to 3:73's slow down 3tenths.. I'm sure the same would happen on a Sy/Ty.

Less gear is the best way..or taller tire.

he is SURE IT WOULD HAPPEN ON A SY TY ALSO-- meaning a guess

QUICKSTOP now just how was qb right when he stated john and scott said that exact same advice to me but i only thanked john

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

Junny - thanks. Just trying to get along with/for everyone!

Good to know a bit more about your background.

Back to John's post, he did say that he agreed that the turbo'd motors like to be loaded down - there have to be limits both max and min and perhaps the tyre size was a a step too far.

9 sec Syclones are relatively few and far between so if you can get into that territory then my hat goes off to you.

I guess your gearing will depend on your power curve'/tq curve and we haven't seen that yet. Most of the advice here seems to be suggesting it isn't recommended or effective. As I said, it may work with your combo. When do you plan on posting up your build so we have an idea of what you're working with?

Sub 3000lbs is a light truck - sounds like an interesting project. Pics are worth a thousand words! What VIN is it? We normally go off the last 4 of the VIN for the truck number.

In summary, I think you are going into uncharted territory with a bit of a headwind. The great thing about these trucks is that people are prepared to experiment with them. Pinoeers are always welcome.

People on here have a lot of experience with the 700R4 and it breaking, mine included hence my 4L80e, but if you can perhaps share some info on what you plan to do to make it stand up to the abuse, that would make intersting reading as well.

 

[junny]

Re: Gear ratio thoughts

everyone is quick to bash but when it comes down to black and white seems everyone starts tippy toeing and side stepping instead of saying hey maybe i was wrong,just maybe just maybeeeeeeeeee they should have acted a little better and a little smarter and not acted like gods who know all without doing it.naaaaaaaaaaaa this cant be the case that guy junny is just an idiot who is twisting everyones words.

yea i twisted the words that they typed in black and white