Why??

[Silly]

Anyone ever wonder why SyTy's are behind the pace as far as drag racing goes? I know there are plenty of reasons such as part availablity, reliability and so on. But the more i look into buying parts I dont think those are the main reasons. It seems that vendors jack the shit out of prices for these trucks.

Here are just a few examples I have seen

$1400-$1600 for front suspension

$2500 for a set of SS headers for angled plugs

$2500 for a forged crank

$650ish for a stock worked over crank.

$2350 for a set of Vortec heads and Intake yet you can buy a full out race set of 18 or 23* heads and intake for less than that.

It just seems that we don't get alot for our dollar here. Maybe its just me

 

[qbnkiller]

Re: Why??

that is the reason I am working on an intake manifold alternative for all of the rest of us here.

 

[2kwik4u]

Re: Why??

Once you look at the size of the market, you can easily see why.....Compare the price of R&D to the price of the parts, and I bet you find that the return on investment still isn't very high.

 

[Silly]

Re: Why??

Once you look at the size of the market, you can easily see why.....Compare the price of R&D to the price of the parts, and I bet you find that the return on investment still isn't very high.

I understand that aspect completely. But still have problem being able to justify spending nearly 8 grand or so and only end up with a block, heads, and crank.

Or you can search the internet for various race parts for sale and spend 5k and end up with the same 3 things yet only better heads

 

[HotRodV6]

Re: Why??

Thats just one of many reason i dumped the build of my V6 for my Sonoma Gt and decided that an LS2 V8 Swap would get the same results plus for less money and way more reliable.

But now that i bought the Ty, im back to hoping up the V6, as i wont do a V8 swap in the Ty. It will always be a V6, btu my goals are a fast low 12 high 11 driver, just some thing that will keep most of the stock slightly modded street cars behind me in a race.

The GT will run low 10's almost on motor alone. If the Ty cant get them then the GT will. LOL

 

[Silly]

Re: Why??

I have gotten a few IM's asking me who i was talking about.

i am not talking about anyone in particular.. just what I have picked up while reading this board over the years.

 

[jamnut]

Re: Why??

I'm noticing the cost issues too. We used to think that LSx stuff was high. HotRodV6 maybe you can understand this.

I just got a whole built motor from HPE, they built the fastest LT1 in the country. For less than $7k I got a very high performance LSx for my Formula built & it's full of names like Cola, Scat, Mahle, ET Performance, Yella Terra, that motor is like a who's who of LSx stuff, makes 440 to the wheels through a TH-350 with a 12 bolt, on a 6 speed car this motor would make about 500 to the wheels, but that's not all, I will be running a 300 shot on this motor, but was told there is no reason that this motor won't be able to handle 400+ of nitrous easily.

To do a $7k motor for my Sy, it still would probably have a stock crank, a stock style casting head & not be able to make close to the power I'm making with my LS1.


Now I'm not complaining, I knew the Sy was going to be a High $ project from the Get Go, but just like the Vette Guys complain that they have to pay a vette tax on all their parts, syclone parts are at a premium also, but it's to be expected due to the fact that it's a supply & demand game & I'm sure that no one is going to get mega rich selling Sy/Ty parts.

 

[93ty475]

Re: Why??

Buy a Buick?

Seriously, why go through all that billet crank, bowtie block, vortecs and stuff when you could hook up with phil and go mid 11's on the stock heads, crank and cam??

 

[Silly]

Re: Why??

Buy a Buick?

Seriously, why go through all that billet crank, bowtie block, vortecs and stuff when you could hook up with phil and go mid 11's on the stock heads, crank and cam??

What about when you no longer want to be in the 11's?

 

[SeattleSy#1255]

Re: Why??

Last time I tried to bring this up, most backed them up with the "supply and demand" argument. Fine.

Don't bitch about gas then.

ls1's are the way to go...buy a vette, that is plan when time/money permits.

 

[93ty475]

Re: Why??

What about when you no longer want to be in the 11's?

Damn....how fast have you been man??

 

[Silly]

Re: Why??

Last time I tried to bring this up, most backed them up with the "supply and demand" argument. Fine.

Don't bitch about gas then.

ls1's are the way to go...buy a vette, that is plan when time/money permits.

Your telling me there is a shortage of vortec heads out there?

I agree on the ls1 part but why a vette? get a formula cheaper and your going to end up changing the motor parts you paid extra for on the vette anyway in the long run.

 

[Silly]

Re: Why??

Damn....how fast have you been man??

I have been in the 11's and was perfectly happy with it... my motor didn't like it though.

 

[92Ty]

Re: Why??

Going fast in a SyTy is not a good idea because of the hadicapping AWD system. If you ditch the AWD, the stock motor can get you into the 10's no problem. I've seen it.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Why??

$1400-$1600 for front suspension

$2350 for a set of Vortec heads and Intake yet you can buy a full out race set of 18 or 23* heads and intake for less than that.

The suspension, half the cost is just for shock spring, ball joints, bushings. With higher production the cost of the a-arms would drop.

Vortec's really aren't that expensive. I had the intake done on GP price, bought used vortec and few gaskets, studs and it was ~$400 plus a core intake. You should be able to get those parts for $500 plus core. Ofcourse that is with stock valves and springs. It costs money to do porting (especially iron), machine work, bigger valves, springs. Send off a set of LS1 head to be ported and see what runs. It would be nice to cheap heads avaliable like SBC's. We atleast have some options.

$2500 for a set of SS headers for angled plugs

$2500 for a forged crank

$650ish for a stock worked over crank.

This is where our engines are at a disadvantage (besides the weak stock internal parts). Those are most custom one off parts and atleast interms of cranks no one is going to mass produce performance cranks. We also suffer from lack of development in terms camshafts as well. Even despite these limitations, I don't think we are that limited. We are never going be the fastest drag strip vehicle. 800-1000hp has been attained and its not like LS1 aren't making those number without SC or Turbo's or a really large shot of N2O. Yeah its a lot cheaper to do with a LS1, but any high powered 2wd vehicle they go no where without sticky tires. The vehicle platform, AWD and brick like feature are just as big of an issue.

 

[Silly]

Re: Why??

I understand that and agree with you... we do start off at a disadvantage to begin with.

But what type of production would be needed to drop the cost of A arms? 50? 100? 200?

I looked into getting a set of L35's done up, was asked to what extent and told them to do their best. They said $1200. So there you go, Iron heads with valves and spring fully done for $1200 then you figure $200 or so for the heads. Do I not know something? Is aluminum more expensive to port? Does having to work the manifold mean you have to spend another $1000?

Why can you get a set of 18* or 23* heads and intake with the heads flowing well over 300cfm for so much less?

But yes the way our trucks were designed set us all back a little, so why have to fight vendor prices when we are already fighting a losing battle?

 

[Captain Morgan]

Re: Why??

$1400-$1600 for front suspension

sure, but that also includes QA1 shocks that are at elast $500 - $640 bucks a pair also.

$2500 for a set of SS headers for angled plugs

I was talking with another member about these last night. Ive been hanging around the BMW forums a lot, headers over there are $3500+, granted everything is relative to the price of the vehicle, but the number of people wanting headers for a BMW is low, just like the number of SyTy owners, period.

$2500 for a forged crank

Unfortunately the SBC is the big daddy of the 4.3L, but its nowhere near as possible. Scat, Eagle, ect all seem to have rediculously high prices for the forged 6 cylinder cranks, popularity is most likely the main factor. I agree with you that $2500 for a crank is too much, hence why I will be going with a turbocharged small block V8 for my next engine in my Ty.

$650ish for a stock worked over crank.

yeah, thats pretty stupid when you can get a virgin one from GM for like $500-$550 last time I checked.

$2350 for a set of Vortec heads and Intake yet you can buy a full out race set of 18 or 23* heads and intake for less than that.

yeah :lol: and the fact that you can get a pair of Vortecs from a junkyard for $100-$150, open the valves for $60 then toss in a few hundred for port and polish, how much does a mechine shop charge to drill and tap the holes for the intake, I dunno but it cant be $2000... I agree with you totally on that one.

Some things seem to be totally unjustified, some things are right on target though, at least to me.

 

[critical]

Re: Why??

Im glad someone brought up the issue of cost.
Some manufacturers believe that because a person buys a high performance vehicle like ours, they will spend thousands of dollars on there products regardless of the cost.
Headers, cranks and heads are the bain of these trucks, and that sucks.
It spites me to know that some imports, like the Supra have very strong bottom ends: stock!
And for me to get that kind of performance, i gotta shell out big time.
By the way, if i was made of money I would own a Supra too.
Ill keep saving 4 sy.

 

[AUSyTyIN]

Re: Why??

Buicks are high performance too, and parts are considerably cheaper for them.

 

[SyTyJedi]

Re: Why??

LS1's are the way to go, see my sig Cost and aftermarket support and depth were factors in my decision.

If you guys think SyTy's are expensive, check out what Vette, Supra, NSX, 3000GTVR4 guys are paying - it will make you sick.