the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
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T-Bone
Active member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
Well, let's see if I can break this down for you and others.
Suppose he got yelled at by a drill sergeant and proceeded to take his own life....is that considered serving his country? No, it is cowardly.
Suppose he comes home on R/R (that's short for rest and relaxation for non military folks) and finds his GF with another guy and proceeded to take his own life....is that considered the military's fault? No, it is cowardly.
I have been in combat. I have had rounds fired off down dark alleys not knowing when one of them would wizz by me or in me. I have been yelled at by senior leadership when I was a junior soldier. I have been dropped for push-ups until my arms were spaghetti and I was sprawled on the ground waiting to hear the order "recover". I have awakened in the middle of the night hearing waste trucks emptying dumpsters while banging the lids and thinking I was in Mosul, Iraq with enemy mortars coming in. Too many run to the medical clinic or VA and desire a diagnosis of PTSD so they can get a hand-out. We need to mature as a society. Soldiers in WW1, WW2, the Korean conflict, etc didn't seem mentally affected like our generation and they had it 10x harder on the battlefield than soldiers today. Too much snibbling occurs over no AC, no TV, no internet on the battlefield, no candy, no cellular service, etc.
Do I know what motivated this fellow to take his own life; no I do not but it is a far stretch to blame the military for his immaturity since he was not in war.
BTW, the reason the suicide rate in the military is greater than that of the population is due to density. Comparing numbers equally, the military rate is much lower but the DOD amplifies it b/c it justifies greater spending needs. For instance, 1 suicide out of 1,000 personnel in the military would equal 1 out of 100,000 in the public. For the record, there are est. 136 suicides out of every 100,000 citizens. If you are active in the service, hang around a while and the picture will become clearer. I have been at the Pentagon where the "real" truth exists. Trust me.....whatever pulls sympathy and more Govt. funding is elevated to Congressional level. Right now, it happens to be wounded warriors and suicides. In time, it will change to seat belt or lip stick violations.
Well, let's see if I can break this down for you and others.
Suppose he got yelled at by a drill sergeant and proceeded to take his own life....is that considered serving his country? No, it is cowardly.
Suppose he comes home on R/R (that's short for rest and relaxation for non military folks) and finds his GF with another guy and proceeded to take his own life....is that considered the military's fault? No, it is cowardly.
I have been in combat. I have had rounds fired off down dark alleys not knowing when one of them would wizz by me or in me. I have been yelled at by senior leadership when I was a junior soldier. I have been dropped for push-ups until my arms were spaghetti and I was sprawled on the ground waiting to hear the order "recover". I have awakened in the middle of the night hearing waste trucks emptying dumpsters while banging the lids and thinking I was in Mosul, Iraq with enemy mortars coming in. Too many run to the medical clinic or VA and desire a diagnosis of PTSD so they can get a hand-out. We need to mature as a society. Soldiers in WW1, WW2, the Korean conflict, etc didn't seem mentally affected like our generation and they had it 10x harder on the battlefield than soldiers today. Too much snibbling occurs over no AC, no TV, no internet on the battlefield, no candy, no cellular service, etc.
Do I know what motivated this fellow to take his own life; no I do not but it is a far stretch to blame the military for his immaturity since he was not in war.
BTW, the reason the suicide rate in the military is greater than that of the population is due to density. Comparing numbers equally, the military rate is much lower but the DOD amplifies it b/c it justifies greater spending needs. For instance, 1 suicide out of 1,000 personnel in the military would equal 1 out of 100,000 in the public. For the record, there are est. 136 suicides out of every 100,000 citizens. If you are active in the service, hang around a while and the picture will become clearer. I have been at the Pentagon where the "real" truth exists. Trust me.....whatever pulls sympathy and more Govt. funding is elevated to Congressional level. Right now, it happens to be wounded warriors and suicides. In time, it will change to seat belt or lip stick violations.
![Quickstop [UK]](/data/avatars/m/5/5165.jpg?1570199786){kind=avatar}
Quickstop [UK]
Combating adversyty.
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
You are sorely mistaken. I suggest you read up on this. WWI and WWII didn't have the diagnosis of PTSD. Many many soldiers were "shell shocked" and ran from the lines. Those that did were treated as cowards and executed for their alleged cowardice. Only in recent years has it come to be acknowledged as a mental health issue and not cowardice. People have lived with the shame of their relatives being called deserters for years and are only now having the establishment acknowledge the horror of what some endured. Not everyone is equipped to deal with the events they may see - it's unpredictable. Big tough men can be reduced to shadows of their selves, small scrawny women can emerge tough and resilient. It's on an individual basis, hard to predict who will cave and isn't indicative of weakness.
WWI and WWII, Korea, Vietnam, World Trade centre, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Wherever there is conflict and shock and trauma, people are susceptible to it.
PTSD was possibly a factor in this guy's death but unless you know what his medical records are, you can't dismiss it or claim it to be a stretch. People can have recurrent and longlasting effects from PTSD many years after a shocking event or series of events. Withdrawal, social fear, isolation and depression are common and suicide can be the result.
http://historyofptsd.wordpress.com/post-wwii-and-vietnam/
You are sorely mistaken. I suggest you read up on this. WWI and WWII didn't have the diagnosis of PTSD. Many many soldiers were "shell shocked" and ran from the lines. Those that did were treated as cowards and executed for their alleged cowardice. Only in recent years has it come to be acknowledged as a mental health issue and not cowardice. People have lived with the shame of their relatives being called deserters for years and are only now having the establishment acknowledge the horror of what some endured. Not everyone is equipped to deal with the events they may see - it's unpredictable. Big tough men can be reduced to shadows of their selves, small scrawny women can emerge tough and resilient. It's on an individual basis, hard to predict who will cave and isn't indicative of weakness.
WWI and WWII, Korea, Vietnam, World Trade centre, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Wherever there is conflict and shock and trauma, people are susceptible to it.
PTSD was possibly a factor in this guy's death but unless you know what his medical records are, you can't dismiss it or claim it to be a stretch. People can have recurrent and longlasting effects from PTSD many years after a shocking event or series of events. Withdrawal, social fear, isolation and depression are common and suicide can be the result.
http://historyofptsd.wordpress.com/post-wwii-and-vietnam/
T-Bone
Active member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
Pleeeeze, spare me. That had a name (fratricide) and it was not done intentionally. You can blame the military all you want for soldiers reactions.....I simply am not feeling it.
We live in a social disorder that seeks to place blame everywhere but where it needs to be placed. Conditional sensitivity is at its peak and in respect of that, I will cease to further contribute to this thread because someone is gonna get their feelings hurt and I don't want to contribute to them hurting themself as a result.
When I went to school (70's-80's), if you ran your mouth to the wrong person, you suffered a hasty lesson promoting future verbal restraint. Now we call it bullying as a society and it is a BIG deal in the US. Guess who is heading the charge? Good ole' Congress.
Pleeeeze, spare me. That had a name (fratricide) and it was not done intentionally. You can blame the military all you want for soldiers reactions.....I simply am not feeling it.
We live in a social disorder that seeks to place blame everywhere but where it needs to be placed. Conditional sensitivity is at its peak and in respect of that, I will cease to further contribute to this thread because someone is gonna get their feelings hurt and I don't want to contribute to them hurting themself as a result.
When I went to school (70's-80's), if you ran your mouth to the wrong person, you suffered a hasty lesson promoting future verbal restraint. Now we call it bullying as a society and it is a BIG deal in the US. Guess who is heading the charge? Good ole' Congress.
ty166
Donating Member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
man a thread that should have been deleted just took a turn for the worst and is now diagnosing military peronal (unfortunatly they cant be here themselves to tell their side)over the internet and debating the true affects of ptsd.......... delete this mess.
ptst or not , someone has to have serious problem to hate life so bad they end thier own.... leave it at that.
man a thread that should have been deleted just took a turn for the worst and is now diagnosing military peronal (unfortunatly they cant be here themselves to tell their side)over the internet and debating the true affects of ptsd.......... delete this mess.
ptst or not , someone has to have serious problem to hate life so bad they end thier own.... leave it at that.
Quickstop [UK]
Combating adversyty.
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
Fratricide is totally different - you're confusing this with something else.
I agree, society is soft in many respects with a lack of personal responsibity often being the case but you can't tell me that the US Army hasn't been aware of psychological issues for many many years.
Battle fatigue is the other term used and post WWII was instrumental in making the US military adopt 1 year only combat tours in Viet Nam to prevent it. This was an own goal as it tore personnel from their units and placed pressure on the "new meat", reducing combat cohesion and making soldiers more isolated and thus more susceptible.
As for bullying, it's one thing to say something dumb to someone and another to be the recipient of sustained and targeted abuse. Denying that bullying in school exists and is a problem is pretty hard to justify.
I'm a big guy and I can handle myself but punching someone just because they said something I didn't like is a sign of mental weakness, not physical strength.
Fratricide is totally different - you're confusing this with something else.
I agree, society is soft in many respects with a lack of personal responsibity often being the case but you can't tell me that the US Army hasn't been aware of psychological issues for many many years.
Battle fatigue is the other term used and post WWII was instrumental in making the US military adopt 1 year only combat tours in Viet Nam to prevent it. This was an own goal as it tore personnel from their units and placed pressure on the "new meat", reducing combat cohesion and making soldiers more isolated and thus more susceptible.
As for bullying, it's one thing to say something dumb to someone and another to be the recipient of sustained and targeted abuse. Denying that bullying in school exists and is a problem is pretty hard to justify.
I'm a big guy and I can handle myself but punching someone just because they said something I didn't like is a sign of mental weakness, not physical strength.
BeastMaster02
New member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
Lets get this straight T-Bone you are saying that nothing this soldier seen in his life as a soldier could have caused this?
Lets get this straight T-Bone you are saying that nothing this soldier seen in his life as a soldier could have caused this?
Quickstop [UK]
Combating adversyty.
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
I'm done. Sorry, I agree.
RIP to the previous owner and I hope the truck gets a nice new home.
I'm done. Sorry, I agree.
RIP to the previous owner and I hope the truck gets a nice new home.
T-Bone
Active member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
I am simply saying he was the driving force of his own destiny. He is to blame; not the military. Always easier to blame someone or something else as the cause. If he committed suicide, he made the decision himself so he is therefore to blame. There is a plethora of avenues within the military to address his problem and it appears he took a different route. For all we know, he could have been on drugs at the time but blaming the military in some way for his own debacle is simply weak. Suicide can ALWAYS be deduced to the problem and it is that the deceased made the choice to overdose, jump from dangerous heights, hang, pull the trigger, etc.
I am simply saying he was the driving force of his own destiny. He is to blame; not the military. Always easier to blame someone or something else as the cause. If he committed suicide, he made the decision himself so he is therefore to blame. There is a plethora of avenues within the military to address his problem and it appears he took a different route. For all we know, he could have been on drugs at the time but blaming the military in some way for his own debacle is simply weak. Suicide can ALWAYS be deduced to the problem and it is that the deceased made the choice to overdose, jump from dangerous heights, hang, pull the trigger, etc.
T-Bone
Active member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
Norm, I am not guessing at what he did.....we all know what he did! He made the decision to take his life thus he is to blame....end of story!!! Not the President, not the military, not the economy, not his girlfriend, not his broken yo-yo, not SyTy.net, etc.
I was cool with the whole mess until someone attested to him dying in service for his country. That enters a different level with me. :cheers:.
Suicide is nothing more than dying in service to self. It is a very selfish act that takes into consideration the thoughts and feelings of no-one else.
Norm, I am not guessing at what he did.....we all know what he did! He made the decision to take his life thus he is to blame....end of story!!! Not the President, not the military, not the economy, not his girlfriend, not his broken yo-yo, not SyTy.net, etc.
I was cool with the whole mess until someone attested to him dying in service for his country. That enters a different level with me. :cheers:.
Suicide is nothing more than dying in service to self. It is a very selfish act that takes into consideration the thoughts and feelings of no-one else.
BeastMaster02
New member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
No one is an expert on this forum it is just their opinion I do not think anyone on here is trying to offend anyone else. I will say this I have seen first hand that not every soldier deals with the same situation the same way. I do agree it is time to take this thread down and delete it the statistics speak for themselves just ask the VA they will give you the facts if anyone cares to know.
No one is an expert on this forum it is just their opinion I do not think anyone on here is trying to offend anyone else. I will say this I have seen first hand that not every soldier deals with the same situation the same way. I do agree it is time to take this thread down and delete it the statistics speak for themselves just ask the VA they will give you the facts if anyone cares to know.
GEMELLI
The Best of Both Worlds
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
This is exactly right. I chose to stay out of the military for personal reasons, but I can't thank enough the veterans and active duty men and women who protect our right to do exactly what we're doing here. Did this get out of hand? Is it out of hand? Absolutely. Should it be locked. Yes. Should it be deleted? No.
This is exactly right. I chose to stay out of the military for personal reasons, but I can't thank enough the veterans and active duty men and women who protect our right to do exactly what we're doing here. Did this get out of hand? Is it out of hand? Absolutely. Should it be locked. Yes. Should it be deleted? No.
T-Bone
Active member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
I agree. I am sure two common people deal with situations differently but when one chooses a permanent exit from this life, they are the engineer driving the train so they must assume the blame for the trainwreck.
I agree. I am sure two common people deal with situations differently but when one chooses a permanent exit from this life, they are the engineer driving the train so they must assume the blame for the trainwreck.
T-Bone
Active member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
Time-Out. Let's change the parameters a bit.
Suppose your wife (or husband) curses you out and to vent, you go out and drive 80 mph. In the process, you are cited by a State Trooper for speeding. Who is guilty of the offense? Whose fault was it that this action occured?
Time-Out. Let's change the parameters a bit.
Suppose your wife (or husband) curses you out and to vent, you go out and drive 80 mph. In the process, you are cited by a State Trooper for speeding. Who is guilty of the offense? Whose fault was it that this action occured?
Norm
Donating Member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
Suicide is nothing more than dying in service to self. It is a very selfish act that takes into consideration the thoughts and feelings of no-one else.
You have to think of how people react to situations. I agreee with what your saying and how somebody handles a situation will be different to how you me and the next person handle with it. Some people will just 'throw in the towel" so to speak over something that the nest person shruggs their sholders and marches on in life. I had a close friend of mine try to take his own life after he lost his job. I never could understand that as at the times jobs were very plentiful and he would have not had a problem to find another. Now as for being in service and seeing active combat and maybe saying for example have a roadside bomb go off and kill the person beside you, that to me would be a life changing experience that I'm not sure how I would react to it. You would have to be in that persons shoes for the real answer.
Suicide is nothing more than dying in service to self. It is a very selfish act that takes into consideration the thoughts and feelings of no-one else.
You have to think of how people react to situations. I agreee with what your saying and how somebody handles a situation will be different to how you me and the next person handle with it. Some people will just 'throw in the towel" so to speak over something that the nest person shruggs their sholders and marches on in life. I had a close friend of mine try to take his own life after he lost his job. I never could understand that as at the times jobs were very plentiful and he would have not had a problem to find another. Now as for being in service and seeing active combat and maybe saying for example have a roadside bomb go off and kill the person beside you, that to me would be a life changing experience that I'm not sure how I would react to it. You would have to be in that persons shoes for the real answer.
T-Bone
Active member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
Annother scenario.....
You get fired from your job and have no income so you go rob Piggly-Wiggly of some hot-dogs. In the process, you are charged with breaking/entering and theft. Who is to blame? The employer for firing you?????
Gotta love human reasoning at times.
Annother scenario.....
You get fired from your job and have no income so you go rob Piggly-Wiggly of some hot-dogs. In the process, you are charged with breaking/entering and theft. Who is to blame? The employer for firing you?????
Gotta love human reasoning at times.
T-Bone
Active member
Re: the garnet burnout ty LOL (on ebay)
Could not agree more BUT if the observer takes his own life as a result, he is accountable....not the bombing or the person killed, or the military for sending him there. I am just saying that people are accountable for their actions, Norm.
Could not agree more BUT if the observer takes his own life as a result, he is accountable....not the bombing or the person killed, or the military for sending him there. I am just saying that people are accountable for their actions, Norm.