Data errors in datamaster: FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

atc82

atc82

New member
The truck has 50lb injectors, TE-61, built tranny with 3K stall, meth injection, and a custom chip from Nolan.

Over the last 3 weeks or so, datamaster will not stay connected to the ECM while under boost. It will also disconnect while just cruising, but it only does this occasionally. Almost anything over 12-13 psi and it looses the connection, only to regain a few seconds after I get out of it. During a boosted launch, it looses the connection right after takeoff and will reconnect/disconnect a few times during a run.

I have the aldl port, ecm case, and wideband 5V output from the LM-1 all grounded at the same place. After I did this the situation didn't get any better.

I am using a Belkin USB adapter and I have tried the new Beta version of datamaster that has the option for USB connectivity. I have also tried two different ALDL cables, both from AKM, and I still get the same result. My laptop uses XP. I use to use ME, but I am not sure if this could be the cause. Anyone had probs with XP?

We have always had some data errors while logging, but never to the point where it would loose the connection to the ecm until recently. Tyler let me try his ecm from his typhoon and it didn't help, so the ecm is not the problem. Also tried logging while the alky system is turned off and got no change of results.

I don't really know what to try next. The truck runs awesome, thanks to Nolan, and doesn't show any signs of a bad ignition component. I use Taylor wires, Conrad cap and rotor, and NGK UR6 plugs. The rest of the ignition is stock. I read several posts here and I am not the only one that has had this problem. I found several threads here and tried what they suggested. (checking grounds, grounding ecm case and aldl port to same place, etc)

any ideas on what I should look at next? Its hard to tune the thing when Datamaster won't stay connected to the ecm.
 
epix

epix

Typhoon
I have a similar problem, even without using the Belkin usb/serial adapter..

when I do a boost take off, it records for a second or so then it loses connection for a short while then resumes again..

I thought it was a hard pull on the datamaster chord when taking off, but ive checked the connection and it seems like its firm and snug on the aldl adapter.
 
Ian Turgeon

Ian Turgeon

Cascading Inspiration
seems to be consistant with my pop's setup. At high throttle situations, dm keeps reporting data errors. I have used my diacom laptop/cable on the same truck w/o any problems.

A lot relys on the laptop I think. Although I wouldnt discount causes like the cable, conector, or wiring on the truck.
 
atc82

atc82

New member
I just want to beat the folks that designed the electrical system on these trucks. I will see if I can get another laptop to try out. I think I am also going to install ME back onto the laptop and see if that makes any difference. Maybe some new wires/cap and rotor. I hate this truck. oh wait, I still love it. its a fickle whore. :evil:
 
SyTyJedi

SyTyJedi

Jedi Council
I have a big hammer that we can try - come on over any time you are ready ;)

Lets put '98 on there - anything but ME.
 
Typhoon #1133

Typhoon #1133

New member
i have the same problem. I have a new laptop and also a very old one. they both stop recording. more i turn up the boost the worse it gets. i have windowns 98 on one computer and windows 2000 on the other. my truck has been doing this for years now. i have tried many differernt cap and rotors, plugs,wires,................. nothing has ever helped.
 
turbodig

turbodig

Active member
SyTyArchives said:
seems to be consistant with my pop's setup. At high throttle situations, dm keeps reporting data errors. I have used my diacom laptop/cable on the same truck w/o any problems.

A lot relys on the laptop I think. Although I wouldnt discount causes like the cable, conector, or wiring on the truck.
Click to expand...


I've observed the opposite phenomena... Same laptop works great on
4 out of 5 trucks, on the 5th one, data errors all over the place.

The ECM/chassis ground does some bizarre stuff. I put a voltmeter
between the ECM ground and the firewall.... .3 volts with the dome lite on, .1 with
it off. ?!?!

I have observed, also, that I never get data errors with anything on my
bench ECM. It's fine all the time.

This leads me to a few ideas:

1) Crappy grounds

The one on the driver's side head is notorious for having paint behind it.
I ran a ground strap from the frame to one of the TB bolts for extra insurance.

Another potential fix for this:

Pull the two pins (ALDL data and ground) from the dash connector, and
run two dedicated wires from the ECM's ALDL data pin and a ground pin.
(The BB9 ground we use for WB02 would be a good one, it's near the ALDL
data pin, as I recall)

Make sure when you route them that you keep them away from any
potential noise sources - top of the firewall, fans/blowers, stereo.

If you can, use twin lead shielded microphone wire from Radio Shack or etc.
Ground the shield to the ECM case.

You could also grab another ALDL connector from a junked vehicle, and
mount it nearer to the ECM. The less distance the signal has to travel,
the better.

2) Alternator noisy/lots of ripple.
Even though the voltage is good coming from it, sometimes it's got a lot of ripple
on it when you look at it with a scope. (Same thing that causes your
speakers to squeal while you drive) Fix for this would be a new alternator,
and/or a Big capacitor on the Alternator output.



3) Noisy environment in general.
It's no surprise to me that most of the trucks that have problems linking to DM
usually have noisy ignition, or other electrical Demons. The ECM wiring
harness is in a crappy place, right next to the dissy. A big wire antenna to
pick up all the arcing going on inside the cap.

The wider-tip rotor that somebody here fabbed up would help reduce that.
So would DIS, but we're not entirely there yet with the stock ECM.


4) Bad laptops.

There's a lot of very non-standard serial ports being delivered on laptops.
DM and any scan tool based on serial connection is a fringe operation,
since you're forcing a port to a baud rate it doesn't natively support. (8192)

Avoid Windows ME like the plague. Win 2k/XP if you can run it, Win 98 SE if you can't.

Later,

Dig
 
T

tealty

New member
I don't know if this will help or not, but when I had datamaster with my old ty it had the msd6a and i put a rf noise filter ($25) on it and the errors were gone.
later
Jordan
 
atc82

atc82

New member
turbodig said:
I've observed the opposite phenomena... Same laptop works great on
4 out of 5 trucks, on the 5th one, data errors all over the place.

The ECM/chassis ground does some bizarre stuff. I put a voltmeter
between the ECM ground and the firewall.... .3 volts with the dome lite on, .1 with
it off. ?!?!

I have observed, also, that I never get data errors with anything on my
bench ECM. It's fine all the time.

This leads me to a few ideas:

1) Crappy grounds

The one on the driver's side head is notorious for having paint behind it.
I ran a ground strap from the frame to one of the TB bolts for extra insurance.

Another potential fix for this:

Pull the two pins (ALDL data and ground) from the dash connector, and
run two dedicated wires from the ECM's ALDL data pin and a ground pin.
(The BB9 ground we use for WB02 would be a good one, it's near the ALDL
data pin, as I recall)

Make sure when you route them that you keep them away from any
potential noise sources - top of the firewall, fans/blowers, stereo.

If you can, use twin lead shielded microphone wire from Radio Shack or etc.
Ground the shield to the ECM case.

You could also grab another ALDL connector from a junked vehicle, and
mount it nearer to the ECM. The less distance the signal has to travel,
the better.

2) Alternator noisy/lots of ripple.
Even though the voltage is good coming from it, sometimes it's got a lot of ripple
on it when you look at it with a scope. (Same thing that causes your
speakers to squeal while you drive) Fix for this would be a new alternator,
and/or a Big capacitor on the Alternator output.



3) Noisy environment in general.
It's no surprise to me that most of the trucks that have problems linking to DM
usually have noisy ignition, or other electrical Demons. The ECM wiring
harness is in a crappy place, right next to the dissy. A big wire antenna to
pick up all the arcing going on inside the cap.

The wider-tip rotor that somebody here fabbed up would help reduce that.
So would DIS, but we're not entirely there yet with the stock ECM.


4) Bad laptops.

There's a lot of very non-standard serial ports being delivered on laptops.
DM and any scan tool based on serial connection is a fringe operation,
since you're forcing a port to a baud rate it doesn't natively support. (8192)

Avoid Windows ME like the plague. Win 2k/XP if you can run it, Win 98 SE if you can't.

Later,

Dig
Click to expand...

thanks for all the suggestions. I have noticed the squeal in the speakers. What size capacitor would you put on the alternator output?

I tried to get the wires out of the aldl connector the other night, but I thought I was going to break it. I tried to get the white clip out that looked like it was holding them in. How do they come out?

I show the aldl pin on the ecm as being an orange wire (pin BA9) . I got this info from the ecm wiring diagram on www.syty.huryde.com. It says BA9 is "serial data" so I assume this is it. I am going to try and run two newshielded wires from the ecm to the aldl connector and see if it helps.
 
turbodig

turbodig

Active member
atc82 said:
thanks for all the suggestions. I have noticed the squeal in the speakers. What size capacitor would you put on the alternator output?
Click to expand...

As big as you can find that will fit in there. Really.
I've seen 1 Farad and larger caps as Alternator filters.

The MSD one mentioned is usually available from Summit.
A good stereo shop will have large filter caps, also.

I tried to get the wires out of the aldl connector the other night, but I thought I was going to break it. I tried to get the white clip out that looked like it was holding them in. How do they come out?
Click to expand...

The white clip is the ticket. Been a while since I had mine apart, but the
white clip should come out of the back of the connector. Once that's out,
the terminals pull out.

I show the aldl pin on the ecm as being an orange wire (pin BA9) . I got this info from the ecm wiring diagram on www.syty.huryde.com. It says BA9 is "serial data" so I assume this is it. I am going to try and run two newshielded wires from the ecm to the aldl connector and see if it helps.
Click to expand...

Yep. BA9 is the one.

Later,

Dig
 
Typhoon #1133

Typhoon #1133

New member
so are you connecting the capacitor to the back of the alternator and then running ALL the wires off of the capacitor? I have a big capacitor that i use for my stereo. it is a 1 Farab. is that the same kind of capacitor you are talking about Dig? if so that thing is huge.
 
turbodig

turbodig

Active member
Typhoon #1133 said:
so are you connecting the capacitor to the back of the alternator and then running ALL the wires off of the capacitor? I have a big capacitor that i use for my stereo. it is a 1 Farab. is that the same kind of capacitor you are talking about Dig? if so that thing is huge.
Click to expand...

Same thing... they are generally quite big, although ones designed for
low voltage applications (<30v) are smaller than higher voltage, generally.
About the size of a can of Dew, might be a bit longer. The MSD one is
shorter and fatter.

Generally, a filter on the alternator will be right next to the back of the
alternator, with the + lead on the cap tied to the voltage output lug,
and the - lead running to a good clean ground on the block or intake.

You can parallel two smaller caps to get more capacitance. The more
capacitance you have, the smoother the DC voltage coming out of the
alternator.

Gotta remember, before it hits the rectifier, an alternator is producing
3-phase AC voltage at a frequency the same as the alternator speed.
After the recifier, it still has little "bumps" in the voltage from the tops
of the sine-wave peaks. The big cap filters out these higher-frequency
"bumps", leaving you with smooth DC.

Underdrive pulleys, overdrive pulleys, or anything that changes the
alternator speed can also effect how much ripple an alternator puts out.
A big enough cap makes it so it doesn't matter.

Later,

Dig
 
D

decodave

New member
I noticed the "data ok" box flashing on my DM, just ideling, even. Unplug MSD & it's fine. So I'm removing the MSD wires from the same harness that's going to the dist. & moving them & the MSD box way away from the dist. & comp. We'll see :lol:
 
T

tealty

New member
Yeah thats what my 6a did. Plug it in and it would do the errors, not plugged in and the dm was fine. That msd filter is what i used, but mine was blue for some reason (about three years ago). I wired it into the 12v (red) wire on the 6a and all was well.
later
Jordan
 
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