Time for rebuild. Suggestions needed.

C

Chrisssssssss

New member
Well all,

It seems that after I finally got the oil pan off, it seems that a rod somehow snapped in half and this was the cause of my boom. I am not quite sure what caused the rod to snap, just that it did. Upon further inspection, it seems that the centrifugal force of the rod and whatever else was going on in the motor at the moment of boom caused the rod to spin and hit the side of the cylinder wall and create a large chunk of a hole in the side of it - into the coolant journals also taking out a small piece of the crank as well. I am not crying over it, just need some suggestions to get the truck mobile again.

From what I can tell at this point is that all the other 5 cylinders appear ok, but until I rip it completely apart, I will not be able to tell for sure. I am going to list the stuff that was replaced in the last rebuild and if possible to make suggestions on what can or should not be re-used or even upgraded to better technology.

Here's the specs as I know it to be:

Rebuilt at 107000 mi - now has 123000 mi.

*Ultimate V9 chip w/Gauge sized display/control

*Autometer boost gauge

*Walbro high flow fuel pump

*GReddy Profec B (Blue) Spec 2 boost controller

*Stock block bored .030 over & all oil passages/drain ports were debured and smoothed out.

*Stock crank turned down .010 on the mains and .020 on the rods & micro polished.

*New L35 rods shot peened (sp?) for stress relief & machined to accept the Speed Pro floating pins.

*L35 heads slightly worked on the intake side and machined for larger springs.

*Ported stock intake

*Comp Cams springs

*GMPP billet steel 2 bolt main caps

*Z28 oil pump with welded pick-up

*Comp Cams double roller timing chain

*Speed Pro .030 over pistons with coated skirts

*Speed Pro rings

*GMPP 1.6 self align roller rockers

*ARP head studs

*ARP main studs

*GM head gaskets

*Stock cam

*Comp Cams push rods

*Edlbrock aluminum water pump

*Custom alternator bracket tensioner for a/c bracket removal

*Custom 3" down pipe with external wastegate

*B&M flex plate

*Turbo is a T3/T4 hybrid, 57 trim compressor wheel w/.60 a/r housing and a Turbonetics Stage V compressor wheel with a 5 bolt Turbonetics .63 a/r housing.

*MSD 6A

*MSD Blaster GM coil

*Taylor plug wires

*50# injectors

*Adjustable fuel pressure regulator

*TiAL external wastegate

*200amp alternator

*Air to water intercooler 86'd for custom Air to Air

*Razor progressive alky injection

*Optima RedTop

*Taurus (6,000cfm) Electric can w/Factory shroud

*GReddy Type R BOV (mounted at lower IC pipe facing down to avoid alky in engine bay

*A/C removed w/non-A/C heater box and custom bracket

*PermaCool power steering cooler mounted under the radiator

*Permacool tranny cooler w/10" SPAL high flow fan

*HUGE front mount intercool mounted behind factory grill

*Heat wrap on 3" downpipe

*Heat covers on plug boots

*Billet overflow catch can

*K&N cone filter

*AEM Wideband O2 sensor

----------------------------------------------

OK, now, given that there is only about 15-20K since the last rebuild, would any of these existing parts be reusable? Should I get all brand new? I know that brand new would be the best, but overall cost is going to be a factor here. I don't mind replacing if it warrants replacing, but if it is fairly safe to re-use in certain areas, then I would prefer that. For example, like the remaining piston heads? 5 should still be ok. I would like to change out the rods for a beefier version like a set of eagle I beams or something that will be able to handle the increased pressures of the rebuilt motor better than the stock L35's that were obviously the weak link in the motor, causing this to need to be done.

So, by there being a hole in the side of the existing block cylinder wall, it will definitely need replacing. What should be done in this case? Should I just look for a L35 block, bore it 30 over and pretty much keep it the same as I already have, or try and look for a vortech block and heads and build that one up while I am at this stage anyways? What would be the necessary changes and the advantages of going Vortech rather than L35?

I will have to do a new crank. Any Suggestions here?

What about a cam? What are the best thoughts here?

Is there anything else that I should think about at this stage?

I think that I may have found a shop that is nearby to do the build. They are very unfamiliar with the truck, but they are a performance shop that specializes in forced induction on mostly VW's and they are extremely busy and from what I gather from talking to them is that they are very knowledgeable about the art of tuning turbos and they seemed like they were interested in taking on the build. The head tech I talked to said that he is in the middle of a couple of builds right now, but they should be finished toward the end of the month, and I should bring the truck past the shop then. He said that he will look at the truck and take it somewhat apart to see what happened and how things look on the inside. He said that he would do a bit of research this week from home to see what he can come up with. He said that he would also let me know before he does anything he would let me know whether he feels comfortable about the build, or pass it on to someone else if he has any doubts that may lead to bad results. Overall I get a good vibe about it and by talking to them, seems like it may be a possibility. The best part is that they live about 5 minutes walk down the street, so I will be close by and able to "supervise" the build, also maybe relaying any questions or concerns to the forum if he has anything that comes up.

So basically I need some direction and possible suggestions on what path to take here as I am going to be looking at doing it right, but money is as always going to be a huge factor, especially since I don't have a lot, but will spend it if necessary and warrants spending. I plan on keeping this truck for a long time, but would like to have it be reliable and also able to go. Any and all comments are welcome and much appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help.

Cheers
Chris
 
C

Chrisssssssss

New member
Re: Time for rebuild. Suggestions needed.

Well, maybe I will ask a few specific questions that I would like to know.

I have been reading a lot of info on the site and searching about different builds that people have done. I am reading that the Vortech heads upgrade is not that difficult, but does it really make a huge difference in performance over the L35 heads? If it is really worth the time, effort, and $$, then I think that now would be the time to do it. I am really still unclear about the actual advantages and performance gains to the Vortech heads.

I feel that the rods were definitely the weak link here. I would like to beef them up to a pair of eagles or some other super duper rod. What is the consensus of the best rods to use out there. I know that a bit of notching to the next block would be necessary to accommodate the beefier rods. What's everyone using for rods here??

I guess the crank has to be replaced. What is the best solution here? Anything to look out for?

What about the cam? I understand that there is custom grinds available. I found a couple of examples and would like to know if I get one, what should I be asking for in a cam? Split-pattern?

Since I have to get the block replaced, I am thinking that I will pretty much get the same block that I currently have and match the specs of it with regards to .030 overbore to match what I already have currently. I would like to try and re-use the pistons if possible. Is this possible if they check out ok just to save a bit of $$? I will probably have to replace the rings for sure.

Main bearings? I will be replacing these, any suggestions?

Any other suggestions are welcome. My main goal here is to put the truck back to the way it was, just with some better rods. I really believe that the rods were the weak link and that's what I will focus on in the rebuild in terms of upgrading. Other than that, the only other thing I was toying with was the Vortech upgrade, but I would really like to know if it is truly worth it, or not. If it is, now's the time and I will, but will stick with what I got based on what response I get here.

I will be bringing the truck to the shop over the next couple of weeks and they said that it would be around christmas to get the truck back. I am assuming that if I go with what I have already had, then I will not be changing too much for the configuration of the set-up so my chip should be still programmed for the truck in this config. I will try and get a datamaster set-up by the time that the truck is turn-key again and look forward to driving it again. Maybe I will have it back in time for some '09 meets! I will be looking forward to that.

Getting ready to go. Need help with planning. Thanks for the help.
Cheers!

Chris
 
TurboTony

TurboTony

Active member
Re: Time for rebuild. Suggestions needed.

Here's my thoughts,

Your right, the rods were the failure.
Don't bother saving anything from the old motor, it will just cost you more in labour to take it out and possibly try and save 5 pistons. Speed pros are and old and heavy design, there are much better pistons around now.

Sounds to me like the entire engine would make a decent boat anchor at this point.

My advice is to start with a fresh sheet of paper and have it built by someone who has a good understanding of what it takes to make a turbo 4.3 live, components, clearances, etc.

I have heard good things about Kinetic from the volkswagen guys but have also heard some awfull tales about guys getting different/custom builds there. I'd say a syty would qualify as different and custom.

It's your truck and your money, spend it where you prefer but I always try and find someone with first hand experience and knowledge when I get into something out of my comfort zone ( turbo sleds, racecars, etc) Why pay someone to learn from mistakes on your build?

Bottom line it isn't going to be a cheap fix, i'd set aside at least 10G's and then find more for all the misc crap that will go along with it.

You may consider just finding a whole other truck, swapping over the go fast parts and selling the rest.

Tony
 
NecroWolf

NecroWolf

lost marbles member
Re: Time for rebuild. Suggestions needed.

go with a 2001 or newer vortec motor and you'll get better rods, cam and heads in one shot. you'll also get roller rockers. its about 1 point higher in compression so you'll have to be careful tuning but it'll be good. get your intake welded up to work, port match and add a 60 trim turbo you'll be pretty happy. if it's in the budget order a fast ramp cam from erue and you'll have a fun inexpensive setup. jpalmer went 9.89 i think on a set of waller ported heads just to give you an idea of how good they can be. but you can't 4 bolt the main on the later block but 600 is possible on 2 bolt mains w/ arp studs.
 
W

werbicki

<User Title Goes Here>
Re: Time for rebuild. Suggestions needed.

If you can get in, go for a Campbell standard build:

http://www.campbellautomotive.com/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=1500&page_id=31

They just finished building my motor to the SyTy 4 Bolt Short Block spec with ported L35 heads. I've got a 14cm 20G with a 60-1 compressor wheel going in too. Motor was completly stock before I blew it after a dyno session in August. I was lucky though, I just spun a rod bearing - crank only needed a little bit of work.

I can't wait, it should go on the engine dyno fairly soon.

Paul
 
mildtowild

mildtowild

Custom Upholsterer
Re: Time for rebuild. Suggestions needed.

TurboTony said:
Here's my thoughts,


You may consider just finding a whole other truck, swapping over the go fast parts and selling the rest.

Tony
Click to expand...


I would agree with this. I test drove the truck before you bought it, and along with the motor there are still the other issues with the truck. When i saw it, i noted

rust in the body
missing cladding
needs new hood and cowl
paint
drivers seat is shot
wiring and gauges are questionable at best

it has a lot of good parts, just poorly used. I think you would come out way ahead starting over. just my :2cents:
 
blk00z28

blk00z28

Forced to by choice
Re: Time for rebuild. Suggestions needed.

The only 2 questions you need to ask yourself is exactly how much money you can afford and what do you want from the motor? Do you want a driver that has good power, go back to stock. If you want to make power and hit 10's then its a totally different mentality.

If you can spend $10k on a motor, then you shouldn't have any problems rebuilding, or in this case building a new motor. If you've read a lot on here then asking if doing vortec's will help is a stupid question.

Your basic build should be a good stock block. A straight crank, je pistons, good rings eagle rods, good bearings, vortec heads(they can even be stock unported because they will still outflow and keep detonation down way more then stock) and just slap the modded lower intake on them to fit and go from there with the other stuff that came off the motor.

I think this is the first time I've heard of a stock rod getting rebuilt..
 
C

Chrisssssssss

New member
Re: Time for rebuild. Suggestions needed.

Yeah, Unfortunately I found out the hard way that the stock rods were not up to the task.

Well, this point the money is always a concern. I feel at least at this point, I would at least like the truck to be drivable. I am in process of talking to TurboTony about sending me out a 4 bolt main shortblock at this point. I think that I will be going to keep the heads and upper intake that I currently have, just to keep the costs down at this point. I may get the Vortech heads sometime at a later date, not quite sure when, but at least this way I have my truck back.

As far as the cladding goes. I will need two pieces. The drivers wheel arch and rear drivers bumper side one. It will need paint and a new hood, but I am not worried about that. I would like to get a different one maybe with some sort of ram-air type thingy built into it. I am looking around for one that catches my eye, but haven't quite found one yet, though there are a lot of choices as far as that goes. I will be taking care of that soon also, as one of my best friends has a paint booth at his house and he does custom jobs for show cars and he also does for a living. I will be getting it redone when it is back. I am undecided whether I want to just go back to black, but I am really thinking a dark charcoal grey metallic shade of some sort.

As for the wiring, I am a car audio guy, so I cleaned that up a bit and fixed all of the hokey wiring, at least to a functional state and will rip into it and totally fix it all when I get it back. I am going to do a quite extensive set-up as far as that goes, so that will be done when I get it back also.

The drivers seat is actually not too bad. Far from perfect, but it is passable for now.

The rest of the truck is functional and seems to be not too bad. The only thing is some slop in the steering, but I think that it just needs some tweakage to fix it.

I was looking into the thoughts of a new truck. Maybe something to consider. I could part this one out to recover some of the cost of getting a new truck, but then I have to find a truck in a reasonable price range, not to mention also one in Canada. Then I have to try and find a place to put the truck while I part it out, then actually do it and list the stuff... There is a lot of effort involved there, unfortunately I do not have the time, nor place to do that at the moment. Right now, it is time that is not on my side right now. Getting the truck back to functional is the most important.
 
T

T.P.

New member
Re: Time for rebuild. Suggestions needed.

ok-L35 heads are a cut above stock, but the vortecs are a substantial upgrade from stock, and then the brodix heads are an even further upgrade from stock. There's a post with syty combinations you should look at and you'll see what i mean. As for the vw guys down the street, let them build you a bug. These trucks are very specific beasts. I would have saved a ton using the vendors in this site earlier in my ty's build. Since you have a 10k budget, and there dont seem to be any syty specific shops in your area, I suggest telling one of the site vendors what your situation is, have them build you a suitable shortblock, find a local gm specific shop with a solid rep, and have them install that block with what you have left, Keeping in mind that it will be on you to make sure that the local gm shop communicates thoroughly with the syty vendor(s) for a smooth install. It doesnt sound like youre trying to run 10's or anything so you should be able to afford a vortec head upgrade too. Eventually, that truck will make you buy tools and a laptop, or make you sell it.
Good luck!!:http://www.syty.net/forums/images/smilies/Ok.gif
 
J

jpalmer

New member
Re: Time for rebuild. Suggestions needed.

on the crank, get a new one from GM then get it cryoed. i would keep the same combo but go through the heads to keep you tune from being too far off. je pistons eagle rods,call it done. stick with what you have that is good, injectors, turbo, ect, and that will keep the cost down.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top