TiAL WG Question
- Thread starter Aeroking
- Start date
Re: TiAL WG Question
Yes, you can change and swap out the springs all you want. There are dual and single spring combos you can run to get the desired pressure. There is a chart on Tials website. See here: http://www.tialmedia.com/documents/w3_tial_38_sp.pdf
Are you going to run the gate off your crossover to compliment an internal gate to eliminate some boost creep or something? Or is this going to be the only wastegate?
Yes, you can change and swap out the springs all you want. There are dual and single spring combos you can run to get the desired pressure. There is a chart on Tials website. See here: http://www.tialmedia.com/documents/w3_tial_38_sp.pdf
Are you going to run the gate off your crossover to compliment an internal gate to eliminate some boost creep or something? Or is this going to be the only wastegate?
H-TOWN-TYPHOON
You're killin' me, Smalls
Re: TiAL WG Question
My wastegate vents to atmosphere with no attatched pipe. Works fine.
Aeroking said:
My wastegate vents to atmosphere with no attatched pipe. Works fine.
Re: TiAL WG Question
the gate will work fine without a discharge tube... however, depending on exactly where you mount it and how you face it, you are probably going to get exhaust smell in the cabin. also, make sure you arent going to be heating up anything you dont want to heat up with the exhaust that is going to come out of it.
the gate will work fine without a discharge tube... however, depending on exactly where you mount it and how you face it, you are probably going to get exhaust smell in the cabin. also, make sure you arent going to be heating up anything you dont want to heat up with the exhaust that is going to come out of it.
Re: TiAL WG Question
Since you are going to be running it in combo with the internal wastegate... how are you going to regulate boost pressure? or are you going to just set the spring to match your internal gate and run the spring setting for boost?
if your using a boost controller, i suppose you can run the tial gate in actuator style control and T off the vacuum line going to your internal gate on the turbo and run it just to the side port on the Tial and leave the top port open - i would figure that would work. i have twin tials on my Z and just T the output of my HKS boost controller to the side port of each gate and leave the top port open, and leave the controller configured for actuator style, works mint and consistent. not sure at what point there is an advantage to using both ports and configuring the controller for external gate control, thats probably for when your exhaust manifold pressure is high enough to push open your wastegate valve before you want it open.
Since you are going to be running it in combo with the internal wastegate... how are you going to regulate boost pressure? or are you going to just set the spring to match your internal gate and run the spring setting for boost?
if your using a boost controller, i suppose you can run the tial gate in actuator style control and T off the vacuum line going to your internal gate on the turbo and run it just to the side port on the Tial and leave the top port open - i would figure that would work. i have twin tials on my Z and just T the output of my HKS boost controller to the side port of each gate and leave the top port open, and leave the controller configured for actuator style, works mint and consistent. not sure at what point there is an advantage to using both ports and configuring the controller for external gate control, thats probably for when your exhaust manifold pressure is high enough to push open your wastegate valve before you want it open.
JSM
Active member
Re: TiAL WG Question
I think you have the spring thing confused. The spring by itseld doesn't determine boost.
There are 2 ports on it, depending on which side and how much pressure you put on it, the boost can go above or below the spring pressure.
Direct pressure to bottom, holds valve closed, more boost.
Direct pressure to top, helps open valve, less boost.
I think you have the spring thing confused. The spring by itseld doesn't determine boost.
There are 2 ports on it, depending on which side and how much pressure you put on it, the boost can go above or below the spring pressure.
Direct pressure to bottom, holds valve closed, more boost.
Direct pressure to top, helps open valve, less boost.
Aeroking
e.i.
Re: TiAL WG Question
huh?? i might have the wrong idea.
this is my theory (might be wrong)
the spring will hold the valve closed until it's psi rating, then the valve opens to vent the excess pressure. and the pressure going into the top (through the hose fitting) is to stabilize the valve/spring movement? correct????
or am i completely backward?
call me crazy, but i never heard/seen anyone running pressure to the side (exhaust) port on a wastegate.
huh?? i might have the wrong idea.
this is my theory (might be wrong)
the spring will hold the valve closed until it's psi rating, then the valve opens to vent the excess pressure. and the pressure going into the top (through the hose fitting) is to stabilize the valve/spring movement? correct????
or am i completely backward?
JS Manufacturing said:
call me crazy, but i never heard/seen anyone running pressure to the side (exhaust) port on a wastegate.
JSM
Active member
Re: TiAL WG Question
The air doesn't stabilize anything, it isn't a shock.
The pressure is used to either hold it closed longer, or open it up sooner.
Boost controllers work off a pulse width and direct pressure to one side or another to add/subtract force from the spring. I have seen 10lb springs hold 30lbs of boost if you put full boost to the upper port. I have seen 10lb springs not hold any boost if you direct pressure to lower port.
Manual boost valves are a controlled (ok, not so controlled) "LEAK" so you are adjusting how much additional pressure your using to hold it closed or to open it.
The stock solenoid works the same way. That is why if you unhook the plug on the solenoid, it goes to just spring pressure or about 8psi, yet stock with the addded air pressure help you can run 15psi or more.
The air doesn't stabilize anything, it isn't a shock.
The pressure is used to either hold it closed longer, or open it up sooner.
Boost controllers work off a pulse width and direct pressure to one side or another to add/subtract force from the spring. I have seen 10lb springs hold 30lbs of boost if you put full boost to the upper port. I have seen 10lb springs not hold any boost if you direct pressure to lower port.
Manual boost valves are a controlled (ok, not so controlled) "LEAK" so you are adjusting how much additional pressure your using to hold it closed or to open it.
The stock solenoid works the same way. That is why if you unhook the plug on the solenoid, it goes to just spring pressure or about 8psi, yet stock with the addded air pressure help you can run 15psi or more.
Aeroking
e.i.
Re: TiAL WG Question
:tup: so for stock boost, i'm figuring a 14.5psi spring would be my best bet, huh.
edited: or wait, i would want to get a spring that is rated for the minimal boost that i might be running. cause if i get a spring for 14.5, then i can't regulate anything under that pressure. and i've been told that with a controller you can control double of what the spring pressure is, so the (provided) 7.5psi spring would suffice, but i will go for a spring in the 10psi range.
:tup: so for stock boost, i'm figuring a 14.5psi spring would be my best bet, huh.
edited: or wait, i would want to get a spring that is rated for the minimal boost that i might be running. cause if i get a spring for 14.5, then i can't regulate anything under that pressure. and i've been told that with a controller you can control double of what the spring pressure is, so the (provided) 7.5psi spring would suffice, but i will go for a spring in the 10psi range.
ghettosled
SYTY SUPERSTORE
Re: TiAL WG Question
on a dual port it is the opposite. more pressure to the top the more boost it will make. I have also never seen a truck make less boost then the base spring pressure.
the most stable way to run a dual port external is constant unrestricted manifold pressure to the side. This will allow the gate to open at the spring rate, whereas if no line is applied the boost can vary.
A second vaccum line is applied to the top of the diaphram. The more pressure applied the more it pushes on the valve and keeps it closed. If you are using a manual bleeder valve it wont allow you to put as much pressure on top of the gate a say a multistage setup with compressed air. As boost pressure rises, so does backpressure and ultimately in high boost applications it will take over and force the valve open. Depending on your target boost level you can feed the top from the intake manifold or the compressor housing (usually a couple psi higher) which will help achieve a few more psi..
I would not run a spring lower then your launch boost. typically 10-14psi is a good base spring pressure. obviously if you plan to run 20+psi it is better to use a spring closer to your target boost level for more control.
JS Manufacturing said:
on a dual port it is the opposite. more pressure to the top the more boost it will make. I have also never seen a truck make less boost then the base spring pressure.
the most stable way to run a dual port external is constant unrestricted manifold pressure to the side. This will allow the gate to open at the spring rate, whereas if no line is applied the boost can vary.
A second vaccum line is applied to the top of the diaphram. The more pressure applied the more it pushes on the valve and keeps it closed. If you are using a manual bleeder valve it wont allow you to put as much pressure on top of the gate a say a multistage setup with compressed air. As boost pressure rises, so does backpressure and ultimately in high boost applications it will take over and force the valve open. Depending on your target boost level you can feed the top from the intake manifold or the compressor housing (usually a couple psi higher) which will help achieve a few more psi..
I would not run a spring lower then your launch boost. typically 10-14psi is a good base spring pressure. obviously if you plan to run 20+psi it is better to use a spring closer to your target boost level for more control.