Radiators...whats best?

Norm

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

Tried the site norm... Can't seem to enter any info...I'll call them in the morning... Check it out and let everyone know...

yeah. I know the site kind of sucks, but I talked to the owner at the show and really nice guy. Had a pile of rads there also fro almost everything and would make a custom rad of any size and dual pass, hose location or what ever you needed.
 

Snoman002

New member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

An external trans cooler will work just fine if not better than stock. Radiator not having the trans cooler built in means more engine coolant can fit in it.

Cold thick transmission fluid can be just as bad as guild that's too hot. The tubing in the radiator isn't for getting rid of heat so much as it is for warming the fluid up to operating temp as quick as possible. Why else do you think EVERY automatic on the planet runs a line to the radiator? I think geo metro's could have sufficed without one, and as cheap as gm is I'm sure they would have saved the money.

More coolant? The transmission 'cooler' portion is a coil of tubing, it takes up probably 1 cup of fluid or less, insignificant in a system that holds a couple gallons.
 

Damian

Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

I don't want to argue this. If you drive your truck around the block once a year or down the strip a couple times a year, stock setup is fine. If you drive the crap out of it for at least a half hour straight in the canyons like I do, stock doesn't cut it.
 

atkonkler

Is this your bush?
Re: Radiators...whats best?

$300 for a custom built radiator for our trucks thru these guys at Dillon... They are in Rochester Mn ... Not bad for something that is made by them vs. A machine.

Griffin is starting out at $450+ for a one off

C and r said $800-1200
 
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Snoman002

New member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

I don't want to argue this. If you drive your truck around the block once a year or down the strip a couple times a year, stock setup is fine. If you drive the crap out of it for at least a half hour straight in the canyons like I do, stock doesn't cut it.

I'm not saying stock cuts it. I know the factory cooling system is weak, heck it was originally designed for a 2.8l underpowered boat anchor of a motor. The 4.3 was pushing the limits and was also a low output motor.

I AM saying that running a radiator with a built in cooler is far superior than just piping the transmission to an external cooler. Your transmission will warm up faster, run cooler, and ultimately last longer. On a high output turbo truck the same applies to the oil as well. Getting the oil up to operating temp quickly is important to the longevity of the engine and turbo system.


Back to radiators. Again I mention the corvette radiator. They are a direct fit in the stock location, offer a healthy cooling capacity increase, and are quite cheap. It is the common radiator for V8 swaps and is usually quite sufficient until you really start trying to pull significant HP from a V8.
 

atkonkler

Is this your bush?
Re: Radiators...whats best?

What year vettes are we talking about here? C-4, c-5, etc , ya get my drift...
 

atkonkler

Is this your bush?
Re: Radiators...whats best?

Where is it on the passenger side head? Pics if possible ... I've always been told its on the driverside on the Ty.
 

atkonkler

Is this your bush?
Re: Radiators...whats best?

I forgive you Dave...your always very informative and I appreciate that! Your info/input is always welcome with me!

Thanks Aaron
 

Snoman002

New member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

Riddle me this:

My Blazer had a digital dash. It always ran on the "200" bar. Each bar was appx 20ºF. while the exact temp is not discernible, the repeatability of the indications was very consistent.

While driving in low temp ambient of perhaps 45ºF or lower, using the heater, the temp gauge would increase one bar. Ie, the engine ran 'hotter' using the heater in ~45º, than it did in 85º ambient using the A/C. If I turned off the heater, the temp would go back down one bar to 'normal'. Turn the heat back on, and about one minute later, the temp was back up.

Why?

Edit: The purpose of this post is to get ya'll to think about heat-load under various conditions as related to radiator capacity.

For solving the riddle, the Blazer's cooling system layout is identical to SyTy. But the gauge sending unit is on the Driver's side head on the Blazer. It's on the Passenger side head on a SyTy. Happy Thinking.

I would reason its because your pulling heat out of the engine using the heater. This shows a lower coolant temp to the thermostat causing the thermostat to close more.

Because the heater core pulls heat out before the thermostat, essentially unregulated, this changes the overall thermodynamic efficiency of the system and in this case creating lower lows (the radiator is colder) and higher highs (the engine is warmer).


As for the corvette radiator, it looks to be an 84-89 (another source said 86-88). As for why its more efficient I couldn't give you exact details as I have not dissected both of them (or either of them). But, as with any heat transmitting device there is an inherent efficiency in it. My guess is the Corvette radiator is of a different design that allows a higher efficiency with less thickness. Yes, yes, I know we were already discussing this. I just offer that a radiator that is 3" thick yet only has 4 1/8" tubes running from one tank to the other is going to have a low efficency, but a radiator that is 1" thick but runs oval cross tubes that are as wide as the radiator is "thick", this allows maximum heat to be transferred between the cores and the fins. Between the S-Series and the Corvette, which do you think that Chevrolet is going to spend money on trying to get the best performance?
Anyways, I hardly have conclusive facts between the two, all I know is the Corvette radiator is/was the preferred choice for budget V8 swaps. You did hit on one point though, its thinner, and in the cramped engine bay of a V8 s-10 having room for a good fan could make all the difference.

As for seeing 230 towing with the blazer, sure, it makes sense. Thermodynamics dictates that the amount of heat transferred between two objects is related to their difference in temperature (radiator and ambient air in this case). As the engine gets hotter the radiator gets hotter too and is able to transfer more BTU's into the air. Plus the thermostat is full open and the fan clutch is fully engaged, although I have a hard time believing that the stock fan would be able to "pull" more air than 55 mph would shove down the radiator, even if the engine was spinning 4500 RPM. Lots of variable in that discussion though. BTW, is this Blazer temp gauge better than the Trailblazers? I know there was a 20-30 degree swing in engine temp on those that wouldn't result in an change in the temp reading (verified with scan gauge). That dang thing would go dead on middle even if the engine was 190 or ~210. GM effectively turned it into a "warm fuzzy" indicator.
 

Darin

New member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

I run a C4 corvette radiator, I believe it's from a 1986. I used the specs form the jagsthatrun website. I too removed the AC condensor as it didn't work anyways, and I wanted to move the radiator forward into the opening.

It works well. Never any issues overheating. I run a dual electric fan setup of my own concoction, with a thermal switch to come on at 175 deg (if memory serves). Now, my Typhoon hardly moves, and it's nowhere near as warm up here as it is in California. But, it works.

Thats all I can really say? My stock radiator had a leak, and I was considering a V8 swap, so I made this choice. A wife and a kid later, and, well, it doesn't get the attention that it once did :)
 

tunerpike

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

I'm not saying stock cuts it. I know the factory cooling system is weak, heck it was originally designed for a 2.8l underpowered boat anchor of a motor. The 4.3 was pushing the limits and was also a low output motor.

I AM saying that running a radiator with a built in cooler is far superior than just piping the transmission to an external cooler. Your transmission will warm up faster, run cooler, and ultimately last longer. On a high output turbo truck the same applies to the oil as well. Getting the oil up to operating temp quickly is important to the longevity of the engine and turbo system.


Back to radiators. Again I mention the corvette radiator. They are a direct fit in the stock location, offer a healthy cooling capacity increase, and are quite cheap. It is the common radiator for V8 swaps and is usually quite sufficient until you really start trying to pull significant HP from a V8.


I do agree that getting your oil temps to operating temp quickly is better for the motor, though I don't understand how a radiator with built in cooling helps in that aspect. The radiator will not start getting hot until the truck is at operating temp and the thermostat opens.. Most drivers are down the road a mile or so before that happens.
 

Snoman002

New member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

Very, very close.

The thermostat will be in exactly the same position that it always is, to maintain whatever temperature it always maintains. (It does not "close more". It is where it always is).

Because the heater removes heat before the thermostat, the coolant flow leaving the head will have to be hotter to mix with the flow from the other bank to have the same temperature at the thermostat. Because the gauge sending unit is before the point the heater flow is tapped, this point (at the gauge sender) will be higher than it would be without the heater removing heat load. You won't see this on a SyTy because the gauge sender is on the other head.

Remember: Thermostats control minimum coolant temperature. Fan Clutch (or electric fan switch settings) control maximum coolant temperature. Within intended design parameters, of course.

informative post, as always of course.

I would argue that the thermostat must be closed some. Flow through the heater core is always the same for any given rpm (or close enough to be true), and flow through the radiator can be controlled by the thermostat. If I start pulling heat out of the heater core loop then the only way to maintain temperature would be to decrease the amount of heat pulled out of the thermostat loop. The only way to do that would be to decrease flow, and the only thing that can do that would be the thermostat.

Aka, if the thermostat was not contributing, when I suddenly started pulling heat out of the system by using the heater then engine temp would go down not stay the same (or up in this case). There has to be an active measure on one side of the system to make up for the loss on the other side.


As for the 4.3 vs corvette radiator, well I have heard it since, but have not researched it in depth. I defer to your knowledge and concede the point.
 

Snoman002

New member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

I do agree that getting your oil temps to operating temp quickly is better for the motor, though I don't understand how a radiator with built in cooling helps in that aspect. The radiator will not start getting hot until the truck is at operating temp and the thermostat opens.. Most drivers are down the road a mile or so before that happens.

As it is the system tasked with pulling heat out of the engine the cooling system is 'typically' the first thing to reach operating temp. If you will notice, the transmission 'cooler' in the radiator is on the hot side. ..hmmm, it seems I cannot find a good picture indicating which side the transmission fittings are truely on, I was relying on my memory of where they were, and my memory can be known to be faulty. That throws a wrench into my point. I did find it odd that there are fittings for the transmission and oil cooler on both the hot side (coolant inlet) and cold side (coolant outlet). The cold side would only serve to disapate heat.

But yes, you are down the road a mile or two, but its still the quickest thing to heat up.

I will say that I'm a Minnesota native and there is no way on heck I want my transmission to be running at -30 for my commute. I know that even here in Ohio I can feel a dramatic difference in my transmission on cold days. Just as I want my engine up to temp before I push it (and the faster it gets warm the sooner I have heat!) the same goes with my transmission. Good fluid in a warm state it probably isn't as important. It is still a VERY efficient way to get heat out of a transmission, even with an accessory cooler, and if it causes overheating so be it, I can at least monitor engine temp.
 

atkonkler

Is this your bush?
Re: Radiators...whats best?

This thread was on radiators and which company makes the best or what others have had luck with... Keep that in mind.
 

tunerpike

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

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Here is the motor out of my 95 S10 from last year that I rebuilt... obviously L35 heads.
 

tunerpike

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

JTR originally published the "Corvette radiator" recommendation in 1991. At the time, S-series V8 swaps were primarily targeted at 2.8L S-series vehicles. The 2.8 core support is narrower, and has limitations for radiator fitment that are not present when using a 4.3 core support. The S-series 4.3 had been available for less than 3 years at that point, and wasn't a good candidate for a V8 swap because the cost of the truck was still high, and the 4.3 isn't that much less of a performer than the 5.7 tbi engine swaps that were the most popular at the time. (1991). In the same publication, JTR mentions the 4.3 radiator, and recommends its use with dual electric fans in non-heavy duty usage. They also mention the 4.3 radiator core is 2-5/8" longer than the Corvette core, but the fin density is less.

You're referring to 20+ year old recommendations (the Corvette radiator for V8 swaps) that were made before the 4.3 radiator and 4.3 S-series were common. This recommendation is now obsolete. The stock 4.3 radiator is bigger, and fits in the 4.3 core support. There's nothing to gain with a swap to a smaller core.

As far as your "Between the S-Series and the Corvette, which do you think that Chevrolet is going to spend money on trying to get the best performance?"

Hands-down: "Both". All manufacturers have [cooling system performance] targets that have to be met prior to the configuration being released for production and sale. S-series in all its iterations outsold Corvette in any given model year at least 10 to 1. So warranty exposure to claims resulting from inadequate cooling would be 10 fold higher than for Corvette. They're much more likely to be SURE they "got it right" on S-series than Corvette, because of the sheer numbers and the associated increase in warranty liabilities.

Corvette purchasers don't give a shit about design deficiencies, and the Corvette has no real competition in its market niche. If they get a "bad" one, they will most likely buy another Corvette of a different year, because if they want Corvette performance, only another Corvette can provide the experience. But if a purchaser of a high volume model like a S-series suv has problems, his next purchase will be a Toyota. Market share is everything to the manufacturers.

I'll say it once more.The radiator doesn't make much difference. It's the operating conditions and airflow that have the greater effect on what the coolant temperature will be for a given heat-loading.

Not to mention.. How many people plan to tow stuff with Corvettes? :D
 

tunerpike

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

Actually, it's more to the rear of the head, centered between Cyls #3 and #5, and it is above the exhaust manifold. Green wire.

There. We've both gotten it wrong today.

What 3 sensors mount in the head:
1. Knock sensor in coolant jacket on later models
2. Computer coolant temp

What else?? watching the championship game and cant think straight...
 

tunerpike

Donating Member
Re: Radiators...whats best?

Obviously I am talking about a 95' setup which is a little different.. it was labeled OBD 1.5.. so it may not even apply in this conversation..
 
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