Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

[3rd_amigo]

Hey guys, a couple of months ago I found this valve:

Many of the Supra guys drive with that.

It would potentially help our trucks spool better without a hard boost launch for the transmission and better boost between the shifts.

Now, my idea for our trucks...

If we got the rpm signal from a controller to a solenoid valve, something like the egr solenoid, and connected the hoses to the valve and the manifold, we could run this valve!

If you have an aftermarket ECU where you have an output signal, you can adjust the opening and closing of that QSV and get more torque in the lower rpm range.

Here's a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ZCOTFET6s

At 1:58 you have a valve comparison with and without the valve.



I think that it could be a great idea for our trucks.

With some electrical gurus here in the forum, could anyone make a microcontroller where you get a rpm signal with 2 adjusting knobs for min rpm and max rpm to open and close the QSV, for the people without a aftermarket ecu?

The only problem as it stands is that it will only work with twinscroll turbos but I have an idea for the stock turbos




What do you guys think about that idea??:roll:

best regards, Domi

 

[bezerk]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

i think its not really for automatics since we spool fast

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

But if you have a big turbo, you need a looser converter. With this, you can spool a lot quicker without needing such a loose converter..

So basically, you can run a bigger turbo and not have the lag.

Autos have lag just like everyone else.

 

[CC801]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

Well it may help some people. Loose converters generate extra heat in the transmission. Excessive heat kills transmissions quickly. May help the trans live a little longer and make normal driving a little easier.

 

[MadMike]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

I see it a bunch in the big turbo crowd over on the LS forum. Not sure if its worth the hassle, but that dyno chart makes me wonder. Most of the big turbo stuff is pulling on the top end as traction on the RWDs is already limited.

Nail on the head with the control aspect... but this isn't much different than a boost controller on a variable vane T.

So not to tough in a drag race, but more problematic on the street... so then you might lean towards anti-lag on the cold side.. either way on the street its tuff to set up the transient... and if ur going fast your always going to be breaking or wearing something out.

 

[3rd_amigo]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

i think its not really for automatics since we spool fast

Rene you say it we have the automatic! This is why i speak about rpm controlled opening and closing the qsv!

And all people that have a idea or suggestions please let us know your opinion!

I would try it right now when my truck would run!

This right now is only an idea and technical debate.

Thx

 

[Don W.]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

DAQ I'm not sure what, exactly, is going on here. For one thing we don't have twin scroll turbos which it seems is required. For another it looks like the valve shuts off half the flow to the turbo which, to me, would create huge back pressure for those cylinders.

I'm not disputing the numbers in the graph, I'm just not completely clear on what's happening.:dunno:

 

[RealFastV6]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

No electrical necessary. T the compressor housing port (or add another port) to the nipple on that actuator, and it'll stay closed up to the actuator spring rating (8psi or whatever) and it'll open once you get past it.

EGR is a PWM signal. You could probably use that to control an air solenoid that'll allow air through it to actuate it (like a second boost controller), but why bother? Boost isn't solely RPM dependent because it depends on other things like LOAD so the EGR table (RPM vs MPH if I recall correctly) isn't really ideal anyways.

 

[3rd_amigo]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

DAQ I'm not sure what, exactly, is going on here. For one thing we don't have twin scroll turbos which it seems is required. For another it looks like the valve shuts off half the flow to the turbo which, to me, would create huge back pressure for those cylinders.

I'm not disputing the numbers in the graph, I'm just not completely clear on what's happening.:dunno:

That requires work on the stock exhaust manifold!





That is how i mean it!

You cut a part of the "wall" between the ex ports!

I know we dont have twin scrolls! But for that is the drawing from me down in the first post!


But i see the people are not ready for that technology ;-)

 

[Darin]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

They work well. They are bloody expensive, too, I think $600US.

I doubt there would be any gains to a turbo sized up to a GT35 (ish). You're going to need a converter regardless, better money spent there than on this item. The stock converter can't take the abuse from a large turbo/high boost launch or locking the converter at high torque.

And yes, you need a twin scroll housing. There aren't many twin scroll T3 housings out there for the larger turbos, so you'd need an adapter to a T4. This would work great on something like Myclone's old GT4294R, but fitting something THAT large on the stock manifolds would put the compressor section likely into the radiator.

So, I feel, a lot of work to use this thing, a lot of money. It'll work, it'll work great, but the majority of the people that could use this thing are going to need a TON of work before even considering it.

 

[ajt86]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

from what ive heard if you use a stand alone controller like AEM truboost- the turbo spools quicker

 

[atkonkler]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

Oh ya , boy I tell ya when you have a aem truboost and a forge wastegate/ thanks tom at sportmachines! You can set the wastegate crack pressure and wastegate duty cycle. It comes on quick like super quick

 

[Don W.]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

So what's happening is a twin scroll is being turned into a single with ALL, or almost all, the exhaust being forced into that scroll presumably forcing a faster spool. Interesting concept.

A variable nozzle (one of about 3 variations) turbine could, and probably would give the same or better results as half the exhaust isn't being forced through the relatively small and angled opening in the manifold. Additionally having that opening reduces to some, probably small, degree the efficiency of a twin scroll turbine.

See this for a quick description:

http://www.dieselnet.com/tech/air_turbo_vgt.php

So the question then is, do they make a variable geometry housing for our turbos? Or for the guys running monster turbos a variable geometry housing may be available. That would make an interesting combo.

 

[Darin]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

Don, you hit the nail on the head. You are effectively changing the A/R of the turbine housing to half of what it would normally be.

There are some VNT turbos. Last I looked (15 years ago?) they were all quite small (used on some of the turbo 4 cyl dodges) or huge on the diesels. Issues that have arisen with the VNT stuff is they tend to get clogged up, all the vanes seize and you end up with either a super fast spooling turbo or one that won't spool at all.

 

[Damian]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

I have a VNT meant for a 2.7L that I'm in the process of rebuilding. They are really cool how they work.

As far as the original post, I'm pretty sure you have to have a twin scroll turbo. I'm gonna look into it though, it is interesting.

 

[Damian]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

From their website:

http://www.suprastore.com/spquspva.html

"The Quick Spool Valve has a butterfly valve blocking a scroll of the divided turbo housing, making the turbo act as if it were a smaller turbo. All the exhaust energy is routed through half the turbine housing, causing the turbo to spool at a much more rapid rate. In other words, the spool valve is essentially "halving" the turbine A/R when the valve is closed, and then you get close to full A/R when it is opened. For example lets say you have a .86 A/R 76GTS turbo. With the quick spool valve operating, at lower rpm's it acts like a turbo with a .43 A/R housing, which means it spools very quickly, shifting the power band downward on the curve and allowing for much quicker build up of hp and torque! When the valve opens, you end up with about 95%+ of your total A/R available and full boost.

YOU MUST HAVE A NON DIVIDED MANIFOLD! If you have a divided manifold, we offer our own QuickSilver manifolds to suit your needs."

We can't do this with stock headers, one bank will be shut off.

 

[Snoman002]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

The controller shouldn't be a problem. The small microcomputer called 'Arduino' seems perfect for this. A bunch of inputs/outputs and you just write some simple code to tell it what to do. You could give it basically whatever signal you wanted and design a program around that. Manifold pressure, by throttle position, by rpm, by ... you get the point. The problem would be getting the signals in the first place, you can't just take a wire and splice it into the stock sensors. I suppose it MIGHT be possible, some careful research would be needed though.

Looking at the twin scroll turbo design I can't see it working on a car originally designed with a twin scroll as 2 or 3 cylinders feed on scroll and the other 2 or 3 cylinders feed the other. That valve would be effectively shutting off the exhaust for 2 or 3 cylinders as all cylinders don't mix before the turbo. If its a retrofit then i could see it, but the purpose of a twin scroll is to do exactly this so is this to remove the lag from a twin scroll that's already supposed to not have much lag. Again this goes into how a twin scroll gets fed by 2 cylinders per scroll, what would be the point of retrofitting a twin scroll if your not going to divide the exhaust? The only reason would be for this valve then.

I'm not sure if I could see this working with a single chamber turbo. Cutting off one side would effectively double the velocity of the exhaust entering the turbine. BUT, it doesn't change the volume of the housing. I don't know enough about turbos to analyze it any further.

 

[MadMike]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

So maybe turn the butterflies the other way... sort of. Like make a vane way away from the blades and don't close them off all the way. Not very effective but might do something...

In my book sometimes simpler is better but I wouldn't want to stop anyone from trying.

Control is easy after I think about it. It doesn't have to self actuate. You could put a button on the steering wheel and quick spool when u need it.... beep beep. Fast n furry-ious...

 

[Snoman002]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

From their website:

http://www.suprastore.com/spquspva.html

"The Quick Spool Valve has a butterfly valve blocking a scroll of the divided turbo housing, making the turbo act as if it were a smaller turbo. All the exhaust energy is routed through half the turbine housing, causing the turbo to spool at a much more rapid rate. In other words, the spool valve is essentially "halving" the turbine A/R when the valve is closed, and then you get close to full A/R when it is opened. For example lets say you have a .86 A/R 76GTS turbo. With the quick spool valve operating, at lower rpm's it acts like a turbo with a .43 A/R housing, which means it spools very quickly, shifting the power band downward on the curve and allowing for much quicker build up of hp and torque! When the valve opens, you end up with about 95%+ of your total A/R available and full boost.

YOU MUST HAVE A NON DIVIDED MANIFOLD! If you have a divided manifold, we offer our own QuickSilver manifolds to suit your needs."

We can't do this with stock headers, one bank will be shut off.

From everything I'm reading about twin scroll turbos you can't have a divided manifold as that would defeat the purpose of a twin scroll.

As mentioned, you could cut the divider out of a stock manifold, then this system could work. That's a lot of faith needed to believe it will have an effect.

BTW, its not a complicated system. Renz could probably make most of it, and then just recycle the stock boost controller to actuate it. You would need an aftermarket wastegate of course, and the computer logic for the stock boost controller most likely isn't correct so you still need a stand alone controller. But maybe not, its just a low pressure wastegate, it needs to be closed when boost is low and open when boost is high.

 

[Damian]

Re: Quick Spool Valve - interesting idea

FYI, the pictures of it show a wastegate actuator just like a turbo does. I don't know why you couldn't use that and be fine.