idler question

[Daithi2]

in middle of swapping steering boxes, pitman, shaft and shaft bearing, im going to swap the idler also since im doing everything else. I was just curious the idler should only rotate while carring the rod not have the ability to rotate vertically like it was a ball joint, is this correct?

reason im asking is as i am replacing this stuff looking for the actual faults of why the truck walked all over the road. it does have 275's and i know that is a portion but this thing was down right scary with the involuntary lane changes.

 

[Don W.]

Re: idler question

If you're asking should the idler move in any direction other than back and forth parallel to the pitman arm the the answer is no. ONLY parallel to the pitman arm. When changing the idler the bolts holes in the frame are slotted. When done make sure the tie rod (between the pitman arm and idler) are the same distance below the frame. IE exactly parallel to the frame side to side. HTH

 

[Daithi2]

Re: idler question

video of movement.



Thanks Don.

 

[0966Sy]

While this is the desired condition, my experience has been this is seldom possible on a SyTy because the idler arm will hit the exhaust crossover. I almost always have to lower the idler arm more than "exactly parallel" so the arm doesn't rub a hole in the exhaust crossover.

I discovered this while turning the steering wheel with the hood open, and wondering why the engine was moving up and down as I turned the wheels. Some trucks have worse interference than others. Probably has to do with the age of the mounts, and how far the engine has settled.

This is a good point, I also do the same. The contact will help contribute to the idler failing premature, and could also rub a hole in the crossover. I remember years back (8-10) I noticed Moog had a design change in there idler arm for our trucks. The first one I remember installing did not have the larger hump design that likes to contact the crossover. I noticed the original moog I first installed was more an L shape vs the hump.

 

[Don W.]

Re: idler question

While this is the desired condition, my experience has been this is seldom possible on a SyTy because the idler arm will hit the exhaust crossover. I almost always have to lower the idler arm more than "exactly parallel" so the arm doesn't rub a hole in the exhaust crossover.

I discovered this while turning the steering wheel with the hood open, and wondering why the engine was moving up and down as I turned the wheels. Some trucks have worse interference than others. Probably has to do with the age of the mounts, and how far the engine has settled.

Funny about the engine moving. I'm home so can't say for positive but the pitman and idler arms are inclined up at, I'm guessing here, about 30* so as they swing they'd go down away from the exhaust. BUTTT don't hold me to that. I'll have the truck tomorrow and you can bet I'll check.

 

[Davemc1963]

Re: idler question

'Quote
While this is the desired condition, my experience has been this is seldom possible on a SyTy because the idler arm will hit the exhaust crossover. I almost always have to lower the idler arm more than "exactly parallel" so the arm doesn't rub a hole in the exhaust crossover.

I discovered this while turning the steering wheel with the hood open, and wondering why the engine was moving up and down as I turned the wheels. Some trucks have worse interference than others. Probably has to do with the age of the mounts, and how far the engine has settled.
Quote'

Thanks for that DaveP, I thought this was just mine and not another SyTy 'feature' In fact I was actually deliberating whether to fit the 2.8 clamshell type mounts to see if this would raise the engine slightly to avoid this interference as I have never been totally comfortable with this.
Although a little off from the original question, but still somewhat relevant, does anyone run the clamshell or 2.8 style mount on their SyTy? It does seem to have a few advantages, especially preventing the engine twisting under torque and not causing the same carnage on failure.
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_S10-43-2wdRepacementMounts.html
Dave

 

[Damian]

Re: idler question

Or just go solid mounts and never have to worry about engine movement ever.

As far as the clamshell style, there is a lot of info on them on the s10forums.com

 

[Ty1642]

Re: idler question

I have the jagsthatrun mounts. The engine definitely sits a little lower than stock. Makes some things easier and others harder. The fan chewed up the bottom shroud slightly, and I was having the same issue DaveP mentioned with the idler arm. I installed motor mount shim plates (maybe 1/4" thick?) on the passenger side mount, and everything fits better. Other than that, I like this style mount - still a soft mount but shouldn't pull apart like the stockers.

 

[Don W.]

Re: idler question

Unable to take pics today. Have to remove a wheel to check. Seems others have the same issue though. Might loose this one.:rotf:

 

[wildphil]

Re: idler question

I checking out the idler arm on my Ty today. It is coming into contact with the cross-over pipe. One more thing to add to the list of things to repair.

 

[Static]

Re: idler question

Im changing mine again since it looks like the one in the video after 2k miles (lifetime warranty one from Vatozone:tdown. Swapping to a Moog this time around. I have the 2.8 JTR mounts and I definitely need to "clearance" the idler so it does not contact the crossover. In order to get close to parallel my bolts are at the very top of the slots.

 

[Davemc1963]

Re: idler question

I wonder if there are any differences in using different brand pitman /idler arms. I've recently fitted Moog items. I would have preferred to have fitted Raybestos professional, but balked at the price it would have cost me to get them over here and that I consider Moog a good (although maybe not quite as good) an alternative and better than most out there. I fitted the Moog tie rods at the same time. It would be interesting to see if others using different brand arms all have the same issue.

 

[wildphil]

Re: idler question

I did a little searching on the internet. I saw pictures of a stock and Moog s10 idler arm side by side. The stock idler arm had a smaller diameter arm. So that could have helped with clearance with a SyTy exhaust crossover.

 

[Static]

Re: idler question

Im still not satisfied with the fitment of the idler. Still hits my crossover after a good amount has been ground off. Anyone know of a 1" drop pitman arm? Does anyone know the specs of the stock pitman?