syclonefrankie
New member
THE FIRST TESTS BEFORE THE FINAL APPLICATION WERE DONE ON A BORROWED SET THAT HAD
BEEN SITTING BESIDE A GARAGE UNPROTECTED, UNTREATED AND WEATHERED FOR 3 YEARS. The
owner was happy to let me experiment on them.
If you dont want this information, dont take it, its not being pushed on you.
Its for those who want new information that may work for them. Not all cladding
is in the same shape, my cladding was in terrible shape and this test produced
a product that worked beautifully for me.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SKIP OVER ANY EXPLANATION AND GO DIRECTLY TO WHAT PERFORMED
FOR ME, SIMPLY SCROLL BELOW THE PAGE SEPARATION.
Now, My cladding was in probably worse shape than any cladding out there, seriously.
I hadnt even treated it in four years always contemplating painting it so I wanted it
dried out in case that moment arose. why did it take me four years, because I really
dont want to paint it, I want my syclone as it came from the factory (except performance
wise), anything else can easily be put back to original. Would you pay collectors
prices for a yenko camaro that had a sunroof, different motor, and bowling ball paint?
Not me, but thats just "my" opinion. And in ten more years youre going to be sitting on
the "yenko" of trucks, and how far from original will it be? Yenko camaros are 20 to 40
times the original value... but not in altered forms. Do not take that as an insult.
I love the way the painted cladding looks, simply awsome, I just want my syclone original.
Anyhow......
So, I have been reading and reading and writing down each and everyones opinion on
cladding treatment, and there were many different opinions, but no one clear cut product.
No one product that finally got the seal of approval. Its like each person said..well I
tried this, I tried that. But the fact is plain and simple....Everyones cladding is in
different shape, period. You cant have a guy with perfectly maintained cladding tell
another guy with terribly oxidized cladding to use the same product, it isnt going to work.
Again, my cladding was the perfect candidate for a test of the best products. And I dont
believe anyone has actually staged an all out performance test to this extent until now.
Each side of the truck has 6 sections of cladding and one on the front, the rear is a
painted roll pan. This gives 13 sections to clearly make close comparisons. While I was at
it I put the same test to engine, plastic and vinyl protectors.
I spent about $75.00 on conditioners and treatments. You may say that wasn't much or it
wasnt enough, I already had a full car care cabinet "6 foot tall", and I also picked up
some lambs wool polishing mits, new clean rags, and some new cool tools that are like
rubber pics on one end and paint brush on the other, great for detailing. to pick out wax
and chase cleaners out of grooves and brush away. In all about 15/20 different products.
I used the products most acclaimed, and products that were never mentioned at all by forum
or friend.
I will not go into detail on each product, because the list would be long and the report
would be seriously long. So I will talk about the most acclaimed products that did fairly
and the unknown product that really out performed all of them. And most importantly how
to use them. Not only did I compare each product against the other, but compared them against
themselves in different ways of application and saturation lengths of time and polishing.
First off, there are three kinds of cladding, polished smooth and brilliant black, dried out
and rough, and great shape but flat and lacking shine. Polished smooth is not going to be as
absorbant, so alot of things wiped off as easily as they were applied. But..this type of
surface should need only a waxing anyhow. Dried out and rough will be much more absorbant
as they held on to the conditioners. Its like this, take a piece of polished plastic and a
piece of scuffed plastic, squirt a drop of wax on the polished plastic and it wipes right off,
squirt a drop on the scuffed plastic and you can wipe as much as you want and you will still
see the difference. My cladding acted the same way. If you have dry blotchy areas, first use a
colored wax and hi speed buff it. Your going to have to smooth the area out and eliminate the
blotches. A high speed buffer and colored wax will do this (If your thinking what about shoe
polish, it is a colored wax as well).
Otherwise these blotches mildly appeared through every product mentioned
on syty and otherwise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The results:
After treating each individual panel with an array of products including the top products
mentioned on syty, In my test all products offered the exact same results. The results were
clear in that the panels treated were next to each other for comparison, and subjected to the
same conditions, time periods and elbow grease. Which is exactly why no one product has ever
clearly risen above the others, because they all performed the same.
But...Two stood out in performance in the way they were applied. One was MOTHERS-BACK TO BLACK,
and the other was an unmentioned product....STONERS-TRIM SHINE. Wow, this product is incredible!
After the results of what this combination did for me I immediately invested in 6 more cans of
this stuff for my car care cabinet. Using MOTHERS BACK TO BLACK you need to apply elbow grease
to cover the entire surface of the cladding, you will feel the results of this after your FIRST
application. Do not wipe off, the key is time. In my first trial I wiped it off an hour after
application, all this did was achieve a darker wet look. Almost as if clear coating the original hazy
faded black surface. The STONERS TRIM SHINE was then applied to its section. This one won by
a huge margin in the fact there was no elbow grease involved, and the EXACT same results were
achieved but appeared to have more shine. And another benefit is to not worry about overspray,
A simple water washing or detailers spray afterwards will wipe it right off the paint. I left
the overspray on my paint until the end of test, about a week. And it washed off fine, Just make
sure your vehicle is waxed, even on an unwaxed surface water will leave spots. Some of my sections
of cladding even had wax embedded in it and the STONERS TRIM SHINE brought it right out on its
own, no rubbing period. Everyone wants results immediately, absorption takes time. The next
step got even better, Now that I found the cut above the rest product, I soaked the cladding on my
truck in STONERS TRIM SHINE for two days. COVERED, NO SUN. After two days of saturation I clearly
noticed a deeper penetration and shine. And the STONERS TRIM SHINE in my opinion outperformed the
BACK TO BLACK. It performed well in its ability to saturate and "even out" and bring the cladding
to one solid black color. Secondly, It was a spray and walk product, no elbow grease. HOO WAH!.
No worries about overspray, HOO WAH!.
Two days later I wiped it down and re-saturated the cladding all the way around the truck, Waited
a full day and a half nice and greasy, and the cladding looked absolutely incredible. You would
really have to see it to believe it. I was blown away by the results. With no exaggeration,
the cladding looks freshly painted. My father hadnt seen me treating the cladding and on the third
day after the TRIM BRIGHT 2nd saturation all the way around, approached the truck as I was detailing
the motor and asked If I had painted the cladding! Keep in mind, I guarantee this cladding was in the
worst shape any cladding has achieved. It really looked as if it just came out of a junkyard.
Now...wipe the cladding down with a new fresh cloth and stand back and you wont believe your eyes. The
more saturation and applications obviously the better. You may want to follow up by waxing it with a
pure carnuba wax to seal it up and protect it from water and sun when you achieve the lustre you want.
I suggest not mixing up petroleums. They fight each other.
A quick summary... Keep the cladding cool, out of the sun. Saturate with STONERS-TRIM SHINE for two days,
wipe down. Re-saturate with Trim Shine for two days. Wipe down. Seal if you want with pure carnuba wax.
Remember: If you have blotchy rough cladding, high speed buff with a black wax or colored compound first.
******** UPDATE ************* UPDATE *************** UPDATE ***************** UPDATE *****************
GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TEST PIECES (NOT THE TRUCK) TO RECONDITION WITH STONERS TRIM SHINE (JUST TO GO
AHEAD AND GET THEM ALL BACK TO ONE COLOR AND RESTORED) I FOUND (AS MENTIONED EARLIER THAT PETROLEUMS FIGHT
EACH OTHER) THAT THE ITEMS WERE BLOTCHY UNTIL FULLY RESATURATED WITH STONERS TRIM SHINE. SO SWITCHING
IMMEDIATELY, YOULL NOTICE DRY/SHINEY BLOTCHES UNTIL ITS FULLY SATURATED WITH THE TRIM SHINE.
**********************************************************************************************************
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A bonus:
I used Eagle1, Vinylex, STP, Meguires, The Wax shop, Turtle wax and more detailers on the engine
compartment. If you squirt some in your fingers,smell it and watch it work, alot of them behave and smell
like armor all. And if you get them on a painted surface they haze the finish.
Guess what! STONERS-TRIM SHINE polishes, restores and protects all plastics, rubber and vinyls. And....
Will not haze painted surfaces!!!!!!! This stuff is awsome under the hood. I had excessive wax from my
last detailing under the hood and in cracks, I used windex surface cleaner to free excess wax and dirt
and then follow up with Trim shine, The Trime Shine will do the rest on its own. Simply come back an
hour later and wipe off. In well maintained compartments you need only spray and wipe.
It has a lubing texture to it, greasy, thats what makes it saturable. But when you wipe it off, it has a
beautiful silk shiney look and feel to it. Perfect.
I can't impress upon you enough how awsome this stuff is. If you try it, you'll definately fall in love.
The cans are huge, They cost only 3.99 a can. One can will go around the cladding twice +, heavily.
Everyone in florida carries this stuff but If you cant find STONERS-TRIM SHINE call them and they'll do
the same, STONERS 717.786.0804 www.trimshine.com
Again, I tested many many products against each other, and for interiors I found another that out performed
the others in my test by far. UV2 protectant. This stuff is flat out awsome. Unlike armorall it has no
tacky residue. And has a super shine. This stuff focuses on UV protection, so is great for protecting
dashes from cracking and fading. And is odorless. Not tacky, odorless, UV protection, Super shine.....
what else could beat that. Another product I love so much I bought a full case. If you cant find it
call the makers and the'll give you the closest distributer or ship it to you, Hollander 1.800.741.5000
I use STP Son of a Gun tire care spray on my tires, spray and walk away. My tires shine for at least a
week or two, depending on weather and road conditions. And nothing slings off the tires onto the paint.
As far as the vinyl cover, it is the most absorbant surface here. I found that MOTHERS BACK TO BLACK
worked perfectly fine in restoring its lustre because it had the perfect viscosity for it. And UV2 should
be all you need to maintain it. In this case Mothers worked better than Stoners because the cover was so
absorbant and the mothers had the thickness to go farther and fully saturate it.
Ive heard others complain about how their truck cover fits. In my case and the case of others who own a
syclone, I have heard someone else in this forum mention a Coverrite/Bondtech model PU-E truck cover.
I have this cover as well. It is a light cover that is nicely water repellent, and fits beautifully as
if it were made for the syclone. As mentioned in someone elses post you need to remove the antenna or
make an incision in it. It comes with a carrying bag and is sold at pepboys, walmart, autozone and
other places for $59.99. I got mine at pepboys.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
repeated:
******** UPDATE ************* UPDATE *************** UPDATE ***************** UPDATE *****************
GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TEST PIECES (NOT THE TRUCK) TO RECONDITION WITH STONERS TRIM SHINE (JUST TO GO
AHEAD AND GET THEM ALL BACK TO ONE COLOR AND RESTORED) I FOUND (AS MENTIONED EARLIER THAT
PETROLEUMS FIGHT EACH OTHER) THAT THE ITEMS WERE BLOTCHY UNTIL FULLY RESATURATED WITH STONERS TRIM SHINE.
SO SWITCHING IMMEDIATELY, YOULL NOTICE DRY/SHINEY BLOTCHES UNTIL ITS FULLY SATURATED WITH THE TRIM SHINE.
**********************************************************************************************************
100in6/Les says he had good results with MOTHERS BACK TO BLACK, his approach was similar in that he
"slathered" the stuff on and left it for days in a garage, out of the sun. Although his approach was
to bake it in. Mine was to keep it cool and out of the sun. I personally in my approach and test, am
completely satisfied with my results. It is obvious in either approach, that time and saturation is
most important. In my case, the product I used gave me seemingly perfect results on faded cladding.
This is not a debate on the effectiveness of product. This is the result of my tests on a number of
different products in which I used on this particular syclone. This syclones cladding was probably
in the worst condition imagineable. Dry, not treated in at least four years, grayish white with wax
stains and blotchy. The motor compartment the same. The truck looks absolutely new now, back to
factory original condition. So these products obviously worked beautifully in this extreme case. I will
try and post pictures with this report, if none are available feel free to contact me at
mailiuseforeverything@yahoo.com for pictures or information.
I hope this helps anyone in need of advice as until this date of sept 28 2003, this is the best system
and product that I have found after testing the most commonly praised, never mentioned and newcomer
products.
This test of hours, days, elbow grease, money and product helped me and its my contribution to the
SYTY/auto enthusiasts community.
Syclonefrankie
Frankie
If you need reassurance.........JWaller just seen my results tonight and he'll tell you that they looked incredible. I think he'd say he was pretty astounded by the difference as well.
BEEN SITTING BESIDE A GARAGE UNPROTECTED, UNTREATED AND WEATHERED FOR 3 YEARS. The
owner was happy to let me experiment on them.
If you dont want this information, dont take it, its not being pushed on you.
Its for those who want new information that may work for them. Not all cladding
is in the same shape, my cladding was in terrible shape and this test produced
a product that worked beautifully for me.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SKIP OVER ANY EXPLANATION AND GO DIRECTLY TO WHAT PERFORMED
FOR ME, SIMPLY SCROLL BELOW THE PAGE SEPARATION.
Now, My cladding was in probably worse shape than any cladding out there, seriously.
I hadnt even treated it in four years always contemplating painting it so I wanted it
dried out in case that moment arose. why did it take me four years, because I really
dont want to paint it, I want my syclone as it came from the factory (except performance
wise), anything else can easily be put back to original. Would you pay collectors
prices for a yenko camaro that had a sunroof, different motor, and bowling ball paint?
Not me, but thats just "my" opinion. And in ten more years youre going to be sitting on
the "yenko" of trucks, and how far from original will it be? Yenko camaros are 20 to 40
times the original value... but not in altered forms. Do not take that as an insult.
I love the way the painted cladding looks, simply awsome, I just want my syclone original.
Anyhow......
So, I have been reading and reading and writing down each and everyones opinion on
cladding treatment, and there were many different opinions, but no one clear cut product.
No one product that finally got the seal of approval. Its like each person said..well I
tried this, I tried that. But the fact is plain and simple....Everyones cladding is in
different shape, period. You cant have a guy with perfectly maintained cladding tell
another guy with terribly oxidized cladding to use the same product, it isnt going to work.
Again, my cladding was the perfect candidate for a test of the best products. And I dont
believe anyone has actually staged an all out performance test to this extent until now.
Each side of the truck has 6 sections of cladding and one on the front, the rear is a
painted roll pan. This gives 13 sections to clearly make close comparisons. While I was at
it I put the same test to engine, plastic and vinyl protectors.
I spent about $75.00 on conditioners and treatments. You may say that wasn't much or it
wasnt enough, I already had a full car care cabinet "6 foot tall", and I also picked up
some lambs wool polishing mits, new clean rags, and some new cool tools that are like
rubber pics on one end and paint brush on the other, great for detailing. to pick out wax
and chase cleaners out of grooves and brush away. In all about 15/20 different products.
I used the products most acclaimed, and products that were never mentioned at all by forum
or friend.
I will not go into detail on each product, because the list would be long and the report
would be seriously long. So I will talk about the most acclaimed products that did fairly
and the unknown product that really out performed all of them. And most importantly how
to use them. Not only did I compare each product against the other, but compared them against
themselves in different ways of application and saturation lengths of time and polishing.
First off, there are three kinds of cladding, polished smooth and brilliant black, dried out
and rough, and great shape but flat and lacking shine. Polished smooth is not going to be as
absorbant, so alot of things wiped off as easily as they were applied. But..this type of
surface should need only a waxing anyhow. Dried out and rough will be much more absorbant
as they held on to the conditioners. Its like this, take a piece of polished plastic and a
piece of scuffed plastic, squirt a drop of wax on the polished plastic and it wipes right off,
squirt a drop on the scuffed plastic and you can wipe as much as you want and you will still
see the difference. My cladding acted the same way. If you have dry blotchy areas, first use a
colored wax and hi speed buff it. Your going to have to smooth the area out and eliminate the
blotches. A high speed buffer and colored wax will do this (If your thinking what about shoe
polish, it is a colored wax as well).
Otherwise these blotches mildly appeared through every product mentioned
on syty and otherwise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The results:
After treating each individual panel with an array of products including the top products
mentioned on syty, In my test all products offered the exact same results. The results were
clear in that the panels treated were next to each other for comparison, and subjected to the
same conditions, time periods and elbow grease. Which is exactly why no one product has ever
clearly risen above the others, because they all performed the same.
But...Two stood out in performance in the way they were applied. One was MOTHERS-BACK TO BLACK,
and the other was an unmentioned product....STONERS-TRIM SHINE. Wow, this product is incredible!
After the results of what this combination did for me I immediately invested in 6 more cans of
this stuff for my car care cabinet. Using MOTHERS BACK TO BLACK you need to apply elbow grease
to cover the entire surface of the cladding, you will feel the results of this after your FIRST
application. Do not wipe off, the key is time. In my first trial I wiped it off an hour after
application, all this did was achieve a darker wet look. Almost as if clear coating the original hazy
faded black surface. The STONERS TRIM SHINE was then applied to its section. This one won by
a huge margin in the fact there was no elbow grease involved, and the EXACT same results were
achieved but appeared to have more shine. And another benefit is to not worry about overspray,
A simple water washing or detailers spray afterwards will wipe it right off the paint. I left
the overspray on my paint until the end of test, about a week. And it washed off fine, Just make
sure your vehicle is waxed, even on an unwaxed surface water will leave spots. Some of my sections
of cladding even had wax embedded in it and the STONERS TRIM SHINE brought it right out on its
own, no rubbing period. Everyone wants results immediately, absorption takes time. The next
step got even better, Now that I found the cut above the rest product, I soaked the cladding on my
truck in STONERS TRIM SHINE for two days. COVERED, NO SUN. After two days of saturation I clearly
noticed a deeper penetration and shine. And the STONERS TRIM SHINE in my opinion outperformed the
BACK TO BLACK. It performed well in its ability to saturate and "even out" and bring the cladding
to one solid black color. Secondly, It was a spray and walk product, no elbow grease. HOO WAH!.
No worries about overspray, HOO WAH!.
Two days later I wiped it down and re-saturated the cladding all the way around the truck, Waited
a full day and a half nice and greasy, and the cladding looked absolutely incredible. You would
really have to see it to believe it. I was blown away by the results. With no exaggeration,
the cladding looks freshly painted. My father hadnt seen me treating the cladding and on the third
day after the TRIM BRIGHT 2nd saturation all the way around, approached the truck as I was detailing
the motor and asked If I had painted the cladding! Keep in mind, I guarantee this cladding was in the
worst shape any cladding has achieved. It really looked as if it just came out of a junkyard.
Now...wipe the cladding down with a new fresh cloth and stand back and you wont believe your eyes. The
more saturation and applications obviously the better. You may want to follow up by waxing it with a
pure carnuba wax to seal it up and protect it from water and sun when you achieve the lustre you want.
I suggest not mixing up petroleums. They fight each other.
A quick summary... Keep the cladding cool, out of the sun. Saturate with STONERS-TRIM SHINE for two days,
wipe down. Re-saturate with Trim Shine for two days. Wipe down. Seal if you want with pure carnuba wax.
Remember: If you have blotchy rough cladding, high speed buff with a black wax or colored compound first.
******** UPDATE ************* UPDATE *************** UPDATE ***************** UPDATE *****************
GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TEST PIECES (NOT THE TRUCK) TO RECONDITION WITH STONERS TRIM SHINE (JUST TO GO
AHEAD AND GET THEM ALL BACK TO ONE COLOR AND RESTORED) I FOUND (AS MENTIONED EARLIER THAT PETROLEUMS FIGHT
EACH OTHER) THAT THE ITEMS WERE BLOTCHY UNTIL FULLY RESATURATED WITH STONERS TRIM SHINE. SO SWITCHING
IMMEDIATELY, YOULL NOTICE DRY/SHINEY BLOTCHES UNTIL ITS FULLY SATURATED WITH THE TRIM SHINE.
**********************************************************************************************************
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A bonus:
I used Eagle1, Vinylex, STP, Meguires, The Wax shop, Turtle wax and more detailers on the engine
compartment. If you squirt some in your fingers,smell it and watch it work, alot of them behave and smell
like armor all. And if you get them on a painted surface they haze the finish.
Guess what! STONERS-TRIM SHINE polishes, restores and protects all plastics, rubber and vinyls. And....
Will not haze painted surfaces!!!!!!! This stuff is awsome under the hood. I had excessive wax from my
last detailing under the hood and in cracks, I used windex surface cleaner to free excess wax and dirt
and then follow up with Trim shine, The Trime Shine will do the rest on its own. Simply come back an
hour later and wipe off. In well maintained compartments you need only spray and wipe.
It has a lubing texture to it, greasy, thats what makes it saturable. But when you wipe it off, it has a
beautiful silk shiney look and feel to it. Perfect.
I can't impress upon you enough how awsome this stuff is. If you try it, you'll definately fall in love.
The cans are huge, They cost only 3.99 a can. One can will go around the cladding twice +, heavily.
Everyone in florida carries this stuff but If you cant find STONERS-TRIM SHINE call them and they'll do
the same, STONERS 717.786.0804 www.trimshine.com
Again, I tested many many products against each other, and for interiors I found another that out performed
the others in my test by far. UV2 protectant. This stuff is flat out awsome. Unlike armorall it has no
tacky residue. And has a super shine. This stuff focuses on UV protection, so is great for protecting
dashes from cracking and fading. And is odorless. Not tacky, odorless, UV protection, Super shine.....
what else could beat that. Another product I love so much I bought a full case. If you cant find it
call the makers and the'll give you the closest distributer or ship it to you, Hollander 1.800.741.5000
I use STP Son of a Gun tire care spray on my tires, spray and walk away. My tires shine for at least a
week or two, depending on weather and road conditions. And nothing slings off the tires onto the paint.
As far as the vinyl cover, it is the most absorbant surface here. I found that MOTHERS BACK TO BLACK
worked perfectly fine in restoring its lustre because it had the perfect viscosity for it. And UV2 should
be all you need to maintain it. In this case Mothers worked better than Stoners because the cover was so
absorbant and the mothers had the thickness to go farther and fully saturate it.
Ive heard others complain about how their truck cover fits. In my case and the case of others who own a
syclone, I have heard someone else in this forum mention a Coverrite/Bondtech model PU-E truck cover.
I have this cover as well. It is a light cover that is nicely water repellent, and fits beautifully as
if it were made for the syclone. As mentioned in someone elses post you need to remove the antenna or
make an incision in it. It comes with a carrying bag and is sold at pepboys, walmart, autozone and
other places for $59.99. I got mine at pepboys.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
repeated:
******** UPDATE ************* UPDATE *************** UPDATE ***************** UPDATE *****************
GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TEST PIECES (NOT THE TRUCK) TO RECONDITION WITH STONERS TRIM SHINE (JUST TO GO
AHEAD AND GET THEM ALL BACK TO ONE COLOR AND RESTORED) I FOUND (AS MENTIONED EARLIER THAT
PETROLEUMS FIGHT EACH OTHER) THAT THE ITEMS WERE BLOTCHY UNTIL FULLY RESATURATED WITH STONERS TRIM SHINE.
SO SWITCHING IMMEDIATELY, YOULL NOTICE DRY/SHINEY BLOTCHES UNTIL ITS FULLY SATURATED WITH THE TRIM SHINE.
**********************************************************************************************************
100in6/Les says he had good results with MOTHERS BACK TO BLACK, his approach was similar in that he
"slathered" the stuff on and left it for days in a garage, out of the sun. Although his approach was
to bake it in. Mine was to keep it cool and out of the sun. I personally in my approach and test, am
completely satisfied with my results. It is obvious in either approach, that time and saturation is
most important. In my case, the product I used gave me seemingly perfect results on faded cladding.
This is not a debate on the effectiveness of product. This is the result of my tests on a number of
different products in which I used on this particular syclone. This syclones cladding was probably
in the worst condition imagineable. Dry, not treated in at least four years, grayish white with wax
stains and blotchy. The motor compartment the same. The truck looks absolutely new now, back to
factory original condition. So these products obviously worked beautifully in this extreme case. I will
try and post pictures with this report, if none are available feel free to contact me at
mailiuseforeverything@yahoo.com for pictures or information.
I hope this helps anyone in need of advice as until this date of sept 28 2003, this is the best system
and product that I have found after testing the most commonly praised, never mentioned and newcomer
products.
This test of hours, days, elbow grease, money and product helped me and its my contribution to the
SYTY/auto enthusiasts community.
Syclonefrankie
Frankie
If you need reassurance.........JWaller just seen my results tonight and he'll tell you that they looked incredible. I think he'd say he was pretty astounded by the difference as well.
