Another timing related question!

[MyNewSy005]

So after finding my distributor rused and a broken cap screw I decided to replace the dist. What a pain in the a$$ that was. ot everything back together but i know I am off on my timing.

Started the truck for the 1st time tonight. It stumbles and dies. Rotated the cap clockwise. stays alive a little longer then dies. Rotate it a little more. Stay allive long enough for me to get the timing light on the balancer, see no sign of a timing mark and then it dies. Finally rotated the cap a little more. Began to idle but again no timing mark that I could see.

At this point i have the dist rotated almost 90 degrees toward the drivers side. WHen I took out my original one it was no where near this rotated. While i lost my refrence points putting the new one in, i felt as if I was somewhere in the ballpark. BUt obviously I am not.

Even tried to use the refrence picture in the factory manual, where #3 plug is just to the drivers side of the centerline. still nothing.

So please, any and all help appreciated. Truck ran great before i started to mess with it and was doing nothing more than routine stuff but now i have a bigger mess.

I have also read about the balancer sliping. which doesnt sound like fun.

truck has 41k miles so i hope it hasnt moved too much.

thanks everyone.

 

[syclone0209]

Re: Another timing related question!

first rotate the engine over till you see the timing slot in the balancer and put a stripe of some white paint in it so you can see it well with the timing light. then put the light on it and see if it is visible with the engine running. if you cant get it running right with just that then you will have to start from scratch finding top dead center on the motor and reinstalling the dist correctly.

 

[MyNewSy005]

Re: Another timing related question!

cant get this thing to run long enough to check the timing marks. and i dont think i am 180 out.

I swaped in the stock dist with the markes i made on it where I took it out. it too is way off. So i dont think its an MSD issue.

I am totally puzzled why this thing is so far off. I changed a head cover gasket, some vac lines and swaped out the dist and new plus and wires. the battery was even out of the truck so I have no idea how this thing could of moved. it didnt/cant.

I have pics to show where i took the dist out at and where it is now if anyone is willing to take a look. and its a sizable difference. so much so the 4 pin connector cant even reach where it shows it needs to be now.

Really stuck and really need to get this truck back on the road. its my only means of transpo right now.

trying to avoid taking all the plugs out and the fan and belt just to try and crank this thing by hand to find TDC.

any and all help appreciated.

 

[Windedv6]

Re: Another timing related question!

cant get this thing to run long enough to check the timing marks. and i dont think i am 180 out.

I swaped in the stock dist with the markes i made on it where I took it out. it too is way off. So i dont think its an MSD issue.

I am totally puzzled why this thing is so far off. I changed a head cover gasket, some vac lines and swaped out the dist and new plus and wires. the battery was even out of the truck so I have no idea how this thing could of moved. it didnt/cant.

I have pics to show where i took the dist out at and where it is now if anyone is willing to take a look. and its a sizable difference. so much so the 4 pin connector cant even reach where it shows it needs to be now.

Really stuck and really need to get this truck back on the road. its my only means of transpo right now.

trying to avoid taking all the plugs out and the fan and belt just to try and crank this thing by hand to find TDC.

any and all help appreciated.

Unplug your fuel line. Unhook the the brown wire inside the passenger compartment. Have someone run the starter for you as you hold the timing light. You slould be able to see the timing marks. I set may timing up before I start my truck this way.

I just started up a new motor yesterday this way and it fired first time, idle and ran out fine. Be sure to hook up the brown wire before starting the motor.

If you don't have the brown wire unhooked you will be at 28 - 30 degrees as your computor is taking over.

John

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Another timing related question!

Are you sure you got your plug wires back on correctly? I swapped my plug wires a few weeks back and stupidly got them out of sync and it sounded exactly like what is happening to you...

 

[MyNewSy005]

Re: Another timing related question!

update:

took the belt, and fan out to rotate the engine to TDC on the balancer. The rotor doesnt point near #1 so i think its safe to say the balancer has slipped. :rant: Just for kicks I put everything back on with the balancer still at 0 degrees and it still wouldnt fire.

Since I havent touched the internals is it safe to say I could use the rotor to point me toward TDC close enough to get the truck started? I have the rotor now lined up to where it should be on #1 and have firmed up the dist hold down bolt in the position shown in the factory service manual.

AT this point I think my battery is run down too after being out of the truck for two weeks and the millions of cranks I have given this thing today.

I dont have a piston stop or tube handly long enough to find TDC through the spark plug hole.

If I have this much stuff already off should I just replace the balancer? isnt it keyed to TDC anyway so a new one would line up properly wouldnt it?


WINDED- I am doing this solo so I dont have anyone to crank the engine for me but will keep that in mind if i can con someone to help me out. And the brown wire has been disconnected this entire time.

WYO- i thought of that too and I double checked all my wires, even tore them all apart from the nice and neat wire looms i spent 45 min putting together. I wish it was something that simple.

any thing i am not thinking of?

Thanks everyone

 

[KDBL1]

Re: Another timing related question!

It sucks but you can pull the valve cover on the driverside to see when the number 1 cylinder is on a compression stoke. Have the cap off the dis to see where the rotor is pointed. You can remove the belt to make the engine a little easier to turn by hand ( socket ratchet ). Once you are sure based on watching the valves open (intake valve close) and close reset the rotor if it is off and it should start rightup. It might take a few (tries) minutes but i work alone too. Thats how I reset after installing new heads last summer.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Another timing related question!

update:

any thing i am not thinking of?

Thanks everyone

Let's see....
when you had the distributor out did you disconnect the little white connector between the hall effect sensor and the ignition module? Did you plug it back in tightly? I guess you would have had to if it's trying to start.

Did you replace the coil wire? Might want to take a multimeter and check resistance through it.

Both connectors plugged tightly onto the ignition module?

Disconnect battery when charging it and let the caps in the ECM discharge just to make sure everything is reset.

Check plug wires again.... 6-5-4-3-2-1, clockwise around the distributor, #6 closest to egr?

Ummm???

 

[MyNewSy005]

Re: Another timing related question!

WYO: this is a brand new MSD dist. all the wires i assume are tight. doesnt look like the ignition module is replaceable. at least I didnt poke around it too much before installing it. New plugs and wires. rechecked all my plug wires to make sure they were in the correct order. double checked my plug wires from the factory manual and the old cap which had numbering.

the only time i could get the truck running long enough to even glance at the timing was when the dist was rotated clockwise. but the rotation was stopped by 4 pin harness. it only stretches so far and I was at the max. and i know when i took this thing off that 4 pin connector was strached to its limits. I kid you not when i say the 2 connectors at the back of the dist seem to want to be parallel with the imaginary centerline of the truck. which i know is too far rotated

KDBL: thats a good idea about the valve cover. i just may do that since I have no other options right now.

i cant imagine what i did to have this kind of problems. never experienced this before and i know its going to be something obvious that i am missing.

 

[MyNewSy005]

Re: Another timing related question!

Well after taking off the valve cover and watching the rockers I found my balancer to be almost on themoney. slightly off but nothing serious.

Put the truck back together, lined everything up and ....it still wont fire.

seriously over this.

anyone know of a good machaning in the greater Los Angeles area? Does RPM do stuff like troubleshooting or are they strictly speed parts.

I have checked, rechecked and triple checked all my connections, wires, plugs. Everything I touched I retouched to make sure I didnt leave anything out.

battery is on a charger right now. gonna try one more time before I set this truck on fire, literally.

thanks everyone for all the helpful suggestions. this has taught me to start paying for a mechainc who knows what the F they are doing

 

[12sec ss]

Re: Another timing related question!

just a thought, the msd distributor may be bad out of the box. mine was, truck didnt want to idle and was blowing black smoke, sent it in and they replaced the pickup...

 

[MyNewSy005]

Re: Another timing related question!

Thats a good thought. Will swap out to the old, working dist and see if anything changes. the truck has won the battle for today.

thanks everyone for your ideas.

 

[Ryan]

Re: Another timing related question!

Any updates?

 

[cloneman315]

Re: Another timing related question!

do like winded says if you dont have someone to help you just make a jumper to the starter and do it that way,it should take about 3 min

 

[Ryan]

Re: Another timing related question!

My truck is doing the same. I hope it's just 180 off. I marked everything and tried to put it back the same. I checked the wires and they get spark. Fuel is good. It just won't try to start. I don't even hear ignition at all.

 

[gkrcr882]

Re: Another timing related question!

Being even one gear tooth off can throw things out of whack pretty badly. Make sure the dist shaft isnt turning excssively when sliding it down and its contacting the cam.

 

[MyNewSy005]

Re: Another timing related question!

my dist was 180 out. and then after that prob was solved I was one cam tooth off and it was prohibiting my dist to rotate far enough around so that I would set the timing.

Dave P directd me to hold the dist down while someone bumps the starter ever so slightly to re-align the oil pump shaft to the correct cam gear. sound more complicated than it is.

Or you can take the easy way out and rotate where the plug wires connect to the cap by one post in the needed direction.