Alky nozzle position?

[WyoSyclone]

One of these days soon, I'm going to start installing my Alky kit from Julio. I've been wanting to find a better place to mount the Alky nozzle. What do you guys think of this plan.... reference the #'s on the pic below.

- move MAT sensor #1, to position #2 (map vac feed)
- move vac line for map (#3) to #4 position on side of Mike's brake booster fitting.
- connect boost gauge line, #4, to a different location (I'll figure that one out).
- Install Alky nozzle at location #1 (old mat sensor location)??

I haven't looked inside the upper manifold, but I think it's probably a straight shot from the MAT sensor hole to the inner manifold.

Comments??

 

[vortecfiero]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

the positon you have picked might not equallly distribute the alky evenly or give it enough time to vaporize

the best place is usually before the throttle body
a few ppl have mounted it between the IC and the TB with good results

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

a few ppl have mounted it between the IC and the TB with good results

Yup, that is where Julio recommends it be mounted.... I just wasn't real crazy about drilling into the IC. I'm not sure vaporization would be a problem since it would be misting directly into the incoming airstream.

One problem I see is that at closed throttle vacuum could suck the fluid out of the line, causing a hesitation in alky flow during the next application.

Keep the comments coming!

 

[jwaller]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

One problem I see is that at closed throttle vacuum could suck the fluid out of the line, causing a hesitation in alky flow during the next application.

it's not a problem because the upper IC is NEVER under vacuum and it's more than a few people have mounted in the Upper IC . I would bet almost every single person on here has done it in that location. When you use an alky kit you should always prime the system before 1st use of the day so it is ready to go when you are.

heck I have personally installed them in that location on at least 12 installs. it is the best position we have in our stock trucks to put it.

Don't try and reinvent the wheel. it works in the IC stick with it.

you cannot put it in the upper plenum. nowhere in it will you get equal distribution.

the only other location we could use would be on the other side of the IC nearest the turbo but there are lots of problems using that location. Don't do it.

 

[SY2932]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

Interesting thread . I was talking to a bud of mine a few year ago about machining an over sized air foil for this reason. The idea was to plumb it so that I could put the alky spray more in the center. I was going to do twin nozzles so that I would have one on both sides to the throttle body air foil. Being that all this would be in a pressurized environment, the gains might no be worth all the trouble. But design and machine time are all free for me...

 

[turbodig]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

the best place is usually before the throttle body
a few ppl have mounted it between the IC and the TB with good results

I really don't agree with that... in fact, I think it's one of the *worst* places from a distribution of liquid/vapor standpoint.

Really big pic, but take a look at where the two bolt heads are:
http://digware.lunarpages.com/images/DSC_0301.JPG

The plan here is to run a couple fan spray nozzles such that the spray can be skewed to balance out the individual cylinders. An alky solenoid will be used (with a hobbs switch) to prevent vacuum from sucking alcohol in.

 

[nallj92]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

I really don't agree with that... in fact, I think it's one of the *worst* places from a distribution of liquid/vapor standpoint.

Really big pic, but take a look at where the two bolt heads are:
http://digware.lunarpages.com/images/DSC_0301.JPG

The plan here is to run a couple fan spray nozzles such that the spray can be skewed to balance out the individual cylinders. An alky solenoid will be used (with a hobbs switch) to prevent vacuum from sucking alcohol in.

it took me about 30 seconds to see it, I am suprised you had the guts to drill into the side of the upper dig, hah.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

it took me about 30 seconds to see it, I am suprised you had the guts to drill into the side of the upper dig, hah.

I held my breath while I drilled.

I have another upper intake, so, no worries.

Only one problem - I drilled them too high up... my nozzles hit the fuel rail. Sucks. Will have to fill/redrill.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

it's not a problem because the upper IC is NEVER under vacuum and it's more than a few people have mounted in the Upper IC .

Sorry John, I didn't make myself very clear.... I meant that if it was mounted in the upper manifold half that it could suck the fluid out under vacuum.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

I really don't agree with that... in fact, I think it's one of the *worst* places from a distribution of liquid/vapor standpoint.

Really big pic, but take a look at where the two bolt heads are:
http://digware.lunarpages.com/images/DSC_0301.JPG

The plan here is to run a couple fan spray nozzles such that the spray can be skewed to balance out the individual cylinders. An alky solenoid will be used (with a hobbs switch) to prevent vacuum from sucking alcohol in.

I'll have to do some studying on the differences between injecting a spray in a high velocity path as opposed to a lower velocity area. It seems that the lower velocity area would 'hold' the particles in a 'mist' pattern longer than if the spray was injected in the high velocity region.

I love watching the spray pattern in this F1 engine video.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2iBbwocYZw it doesn't have a lot to do with what we're talking about here, but it's fun to envision what's happening inside our intake tract.

I should contact Matt Blum and see if he sees any opportunity for incorporating spray nozzles in one of his throttle body rebuilds.

That looks like a cool set up Dig... get it done so I'm not the guinea pig!

 

[SY2932]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

One of the more interesting setups that I have seen was Mark Larson's truck at the '03 NATS:

Quad sprayers WAY upstream from the throttle body on his A2A IC. IIRC, he was running low 11's with a PTE stealth turbo like I have with this setup.

I recall someone posted on here way back about a sprayer for nitrous that bolted up between the throttle body and the plenum. Couldn't find the thread though...

I have had this crazy idea for awhile about machining a polycarbonate plate that would fit on top of the plenum to see what is going on inside "Smokey" Yunick style...

 

[turbodig]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

I'll have to do some studying on the differences between injecting a spray in a high velocity path as opposed to a lower velocity area. It seems that the lower velocity area would 'hold' the particles in a 'mist' pattern longer than if the spray was injected in the high velocity region.

I love watching the spray pattern in this F1 engine video.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2iBbwocYZw it doesn't have a lot to do with what we're talking about here, but it's fun to envision what's happening inside our intake tract.

I should contact Matt Blum and see if he sees any opportunity for incorporating spray nozzles in one of his throttle body rebuilds.

That looks like a cool set up Dig... get it done so I'm not the guinea pig!

The "chaos" of the pattern and the vaporization of the alky is the rationale for the adjustability. The nozzles I'm using have a jam nut to "clock" the nozzles to bias them in whatever direction the plugs dictate.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

One of the more interesting setups that I have seen was Mark Larson's truck at the '03 NATS:

Quad sprayers WAY upstream from the throttle body on his A2A IC. IIRC, he was running low 11's with a PTE stealth turbo like I have with this setup.

I recall someone posted on here way back about a sprayer for nitrous that bolted up between the throttle body and the plenum. Couldn't find the thread though...

Yeah, and he pounded the crap out of the mains doing it.

I looked into making a spray bar across the bottom of the plenum. While you can deliver fuel that way, it's hard to get it to spray normally.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

The "chaos" of the pattern and the vaporization of the alky is the rationale for the adjustability. The nozzles I'm using have a jam nut to "clock" the nozzles to bias them in whatever direction the plugs dictate.

That's pretty cool..

On a different train of thought, I would imagine our intakes get hot enough to evaporate any droplets that may form on the intake walls?

Seems to me that getting the alky closer to the injectors is a good thing... I still wonder about the fluid getting siphoned out of the sprayers/lines during closed throttle.

 

[SY2932]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

Yeah, and he pounded the crap out of the mains doing it.

Well, his user name *was* "Buster" . I got him on video when he was in the finals up against Al from TX doing a nice AWD burnout when he grenaded his front diff at KCIR. They told Al that Mark broke so he was the winner. He babied if off the line and then nailed it. Still ran a low 12... But he did have four ice chests in his bed :lol:.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

It'd be cool to have a manifold spacer, such that you could mount 6 small alky jets in it, each 1/6 of the normal single jet that you'd use.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

It'd be cool to have a manifold spacer, such that you could mount 6 small alky jets in it, each 1/6 of the normal single jet that you'd use.

Are you going to run those batch fire?

 

[SY2932]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

It'd be cool to have a manifold spacer, such that you could mount 6 small alky jets in it, each 1/6 of the normal single jet that you'd use.

Between the lower intake upper intake correct? What would you have to have with regard to minimum material thickness (for the alky jets)?

 

[turbodig]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

Between the lower intake upper intake correct? What would you have to have with regard to minimum material thickness (for the alky jets)?

Most of the common jets are 1/8". 1/4" would be the minimum, I would think. Even that isn't leaving much room.

 

[SY2932]

Re: Alky nozzle position?

Most of the common jets are 1/8". 1/4" would be the minimum, I would think. Even that isn't leaving much room.

If you are willing to "experiment", I could CNC you a spacer out of 6061-T6 and drill and tap it in the locations of your choice. I already have the ports CAD'd out. You would only have to pay for material cost... Of course once you raise the height of the plenum, you are going to lose your hold downs on the IC unless you get longer brackets too.