20G or TE-44?

[sytyfreak]

Hi all, I just saw this price list on the classifieds and it confused me...GMC Syclone & Typhoon
17C 8cm² and 20G 8cm²
Turbochargers.com - TD05H-16G-7CM²
Supports up to 380 HP TD06/17C/8cm --- $699.00
Supports up to 430 HP TD06/20G/8cm --- $850.00
TD06H/20G/14cm --- $950.00[/quote]

Is it actually worth paying that amount of $$$ instead of going with a garret style turbo??? I thought that garrets were supposed to be better/more efficient than mitsu turbos... Is a 20G 14cm2 a better turbo or has more potential than a TE-44???

I'm not talking about a PTE combo, I just want to know which turbo is better/has more potential. I ask because I'm debating between these two for a turbo upgrade. They would be used in a truck with a higher stall converter.

Thanx.

 

[bdubb]

i like garrets, but good luck just "bolting" it in, unless you have a PT&E kit, or i guess a real shitty ATR kit.


things you will need on a "garret" turbo. machine housing to work with your manifolds, block off some water lines, and run an oil line to it, air intake filter system thing, and a downpipe.

so sure a TE44 may be cheap, first.

and stay away from a "Chan" turbo. they are even more junk then ATR.


20g is good for 11s, just look at Dig........

 

[smeagol]

I don't think Hahn's stuff is junk, most of it is just off the shelf stuff - they don't do the machine work on the hybrid turbos they do have.

 

[bdubb]

I don't think Hahn's stuff is junk, most of it is just off the shelf stuff - they don't do the machine work on the hybrid turbos they do have.

opps. still too early.....

i ment Chan.

Hahn isnt bad, at all.

 

[kwick6]

I don't think Hahn's stuff is junk, most of it is just off the shelf stuff - they don't do the machine work on the hybrid turbos they do have.

opps. still too early.....

i ment Chan.

Hahn isnt bad, at all.

I have a TE44, wet center section, with a Chan exh housing that bolts to the stock downpipe.

Yes it is junk, and I'm pissed that I ever even put it on the truck. It sucks not having boost control.
I've wired it shut to test it, and have no leaks @25+psi, so an external WG is going on until the stock motor decides to quit.

 

[Loeryder]

I'd say those prices look a bit steep.

If you can't do a full PTE kit, I'd stick with a bolt on 20g to get you by till you can sink the cash.
Thats my plan.

Look around for a used 20g, or send your stocker to www.turborepair.com for a rebuild/upgrade.

 

[sytyfreak]

Thanx for the info guys

But, heres my problem:

I want to run a 3 inch DP on anyway I choose to go. If I do the 20G upgrade I want to run a 3 DP, but I haven't found another DP other than the ATR (which I'm trying to avoid because of some negative comments I've heard) that would fit with the stock headers and will fit stock turbo/20G. I don't want to go PTE since I already have a TIAL wastegate. And my other option the RPM DP(for Ext. wastegate) is designed towards a Garret style turbo and Innovative gate(correct me on the innovative comment, if wrong).

I've been thinking going PTE(TE-44) but I would like to keep the TIAL and I don't want to disable the PTE's internal. On the other hand I like the 20G because it's a direct bolt on, but I would like to run a 3 inch downpipe too and I can't find one other than the one Morgan was offering but it hasn't been finished. I've also have considered going with an RPM kit(since I like externals) but that would also mean I have to get ridd of the TIAL :x

What would you guys do if you were in my shoes??? Also if there's any other option that I haven't noticed or didn't mention please feel free to comment.

Thanx!

 

[JSM]

If you like the 20g, I will be making a 3" for rockville, and could be swayed to make 2.

Pics are posted, do a search for 3" and 20g.

Email me if interested.

Otherwise is seems to me you have restricted yourself into a corner with few options.

 

[10secTy]

Hmmmm TurboTonys 72 is a Chan turbo, it seems to be working pretty good. Go figure :wink:


Nolan

 

[kwick6]

Thanx for the info guys

But, heres my problem:

I want to run a 3 inch DP on anyway I choose to go. If I do the 20G upgrade I want to run a 3 DP, but I haven't found another DP other than the ATR (which I'm trying to avoid because of some negative comments I've heard) that would fit with the stock headers and will fit stock turbo/20G. I don't want to go PTE since I already have a TIAL wastegate. And my other option the RPM DP(for Ext. wastegate) is designed towards a Garret style turbo and Innovative gate(correct me on the innovative comment, if wrong).

I've been thinking going PTE(TE-44) but I would like to keep the TIAL and I don't want to disable the PTE's internal. On the other hand I like the 20G because it's a direct bolt on, but I would like to run a 3 inch downpipe too and I can't find one other than the one Morgan was offering but it hasn't been finished. I've also have considered going with an RPM kit(since I like externals) but that would also mean I have to get ridd of the TIAL :x

What would you guys do if you were in my shoes??? Also if there's any other option that I haven't noticed or didn't mention please feel free to comment.

Thanx!

I've been holding off changing my turbo setup for a long time, basically because once the new motor is built, I'm going to go larger than the .63 a/r housing that I have now.

I will be putting the Tial 40 on the crossover, and thats what I plan to use on anything in the future as well.

I know of one person that bought the PTE kit, and has since went back to an external WG on the crossover, and wired the integral shut. I'm not saying that PTE setup isn't great, its just I've seen that most who have used an external WG, usually can't be happy with an integral.

If I use this TE44, I'll change the housing to possibly a .82 a/r that doesn't use an integral. I'm not exactly sure which housing I will use, but it will be a 4 bolt, and if needed I might have to use something like this...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2409229047
if the housing was initially made for an integral setup. I'm not sure I've seen all the options for garrett 4 bolt exhaust housings, running external WG's on the crossover, so correct me if there is a better solution, or an easier one.

I will most likely stay with the garrett turbo, and if needed, buy some 3" mandrel 180's and do something on my own. The important thing with garrett turbos is to stay away from the 3-4bolt adapter off the manifold, you don't want that....they leak.

If Jeff can make a 3" downpipe for a 20g , allowing you to retain your Tial on the crossover, I'd say go for it. Even if you decided later on, to upgrade turbos....I'm sure you'd have no problem whatsoever selling that downpipe on here.


Nolan: Is Tony using the integral wastegate? I'm not 100% sure my problem is fixable, even if I pulled it off and repaired whatever it is causing the puck to hang up. It was basically a new turbo when I got it, and the arm that controls the puck seems kinda junky.

 

[smeagol]

Hmmmm TurboTonys 72 is a Chan turbo, it seems to be working pretty good. Go figure :wink:


Nolan

Yea, but there were no custom machined pieces for it - like stuffing a p-trim in a T3 housing meant for a 2.3L Ford motor.

Plus you didn't get raped for the price.

 

[smeagol]

Thanx for the info guys

But, heres my problem:

I want to run a 3 inch DP on anyway I choose to go. If I do the 20G upgrade I want to run a 3 DP, but I haven't found another DP other than the ATR (which I'm trying to avoid because of some negative comments I've heard) that would fit with the stock headers and will fit stock turbo/20G. I don't want to go PTE since I already have a TIAL wastegate. And my other option the RPM DP(for Ext. wastegate) is designed towards a Garret style turbo and Innovative gate(correct me on the innovative comment, if wrong).

I've been thinking going PTE(TE-44) but I would like to keep the TIAL and I don't want to disable the PTE's internal. On the other hand I like the 20G because it's a direct bolt on, but I would like to run a 3 inch downpipe too and I can't find one other than the one Morgan was offering but it hasn't been finished. I've also have considered going with an RPM kit(since I like externals) but that would also mean I have to get ridd of the TIAL :x

What would you guys do if you were in my shoes??? Also if there's any other option that I haven't noticed or didn't mention please feel free to comment.

Thanx!

Ok, i'm going to say this for the last time - and this isn't ripping on you, it's just because I see it every other week or so.

THE ATR DOWNPIPE DOES NOT BOLT UP TO THE STOCK TURBO. IT BOLTS UP TO A GARRETT TURBO. MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE FLANGE THAT IS ON A 3 BOLT BUICK HOUSING BY GARRETT; IT WILL FIT THE SYTY PTE HOUSING WITH SOME SLIGHT MODIFICATION.

For your application - what are your goals now, what will they be? If they are only 11s/12s - I'd look into a hybrid setup, keep the wastegate on the crossover. Down the road if you are hurting on the stock downpipe, have a custom one done. Mike Lee *may* have a downpipe setup for w/o a wastegate. He has also told me that he can workup his downpipe to mount whatever wastegate you want - he might just need it handy for the fabrication.

 

[JSM]

THE ATR DOWNPIPE DOES NOT BOLT UP TO THE STOCK TURBO. IT BOLTS UP TO A GARRETT TURBO. MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE FLANGE THAT IS ON A 3 BOLT BUICK HOUSING BY GARRETT; IT WILL FIT THE SYTY PTE HOUSING WITH SOME SLIGHT MODIFICATION.

So, I can order the ATR, and bolt it up to my 20G right?

Atleast it makes me feel good one of my mods, is NOT available elsewhere, and all the pain and suffering were not for nothing.

Green is correct. ATR downpipe WILL not bolt up to stock or 20g style upgrade. When I built mine, it was custom from flange all the way back to cat. Not being available, and if the ATR was, the spark plug access being difficult both convinced me to develop my own. Plus I wanted to try removing the WG service port, to hopefully improve boost. Now if I could just get all the bugs out of the intake, i could get some results.

 

[smeagol]

Nolan: Is Tony using the integral wastegate? I'm not 100% sure my problem is fixable, even if I pulled it off and repaired whatever it is causing the puck to hang up. It was basically a new turbo when I got it, and the arm that controls the puck seems kinda junky.

I'm not Nolan but i can clear up some issues here.

Tony is using an integral, but it's basically PTE's integral -they got the upper section of PTE downpipe & actuator, and have a PTE exhaust housing.

Scott, yours is a custom/modified piece done by Chan.

The ones that Chan modified a long time ago had issues, dunno if he's fixed them. The puck wouldn't travel much, everything hung up, there were lots of issues. We saw one of the Mitsu's he did up back then, and it had to be totally reworked. The TE45's etc that he did up with the Garrett T3 integral gate setup had problems too. Some leaked at the wastegate, some stuck.

 

[CLONE]

Ok, i'm going to say this for the last time - and this isn't ripping on you, it's just because I see it every other week or so.

[THE ATR DOWNPIPE DOES NOT BOLT UP TO THE STOCK TURBO. IT BOLTS UP TO A GARRETT TURBO. MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE FLANGE THAT IS ON A 3 BOLT BUICK HOUSING BY GARRETT; IT WILL FIT THE SYTY PTE HOUSING WITH SOME SLIGHT MODIFICATION.

Will the ATR downpipe bolt up to a 20g? :wink:

 

[smeagol]

Ok, i'm going to say this for the last time - and this isn't ripping on you, it's just because I see it every other week or so.

[THE ATR DOWNPIPE DOES NOT BOLT UP TO THE STOCK TURBO. IT BOLTS UP TO A GARRETT TURBO. MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE FLANGE THAT IS ON A 3 BOLT BUICK HOUSING BY GARRETT; IT WILL FIT THE SYTY PTE HOUSING WITH SOME SLIGHT MODIFICATION.

Will the ATR downpipe bolt up to a 20g? :wink:

that's it, you SOB, you've done it... i'm gonna hit bw this weekend for that last comment....

 

[kwick6]

Nolan: Is Tony using the integral wastegate? I'm not 100% sure my problem is fixable, even if I pulled it off and repaired whatever it is causing the puck to hang up. It was basically a new turbo when I got it, and the arm that controls the puck seems kinda junky.

I'm not Nolan but i can clear up some issues here.

Tony is using an integral, but it's basically PTE's integral -they got the upper section of PTE downpipe & actuator, and have a PTE exhaust housing.

Scott, yours is a custom/modified piece done by Chan.

The ones that Chan modified a long time ago had issues, dunno if he's fixed them. The puck wouldn't travel much, everything hung up, there were lots of issues. We saw one of the Mitsu's he did up back then, and it had to be totally reworked. The TE45's etc that he did up with the Garrett T3 integral gate setup had problems too. Some leaked at the wastegate, some stuck.

Yes the puck hangs up. I was getting good boost off the line, puck was sealing fine. As soon as I hit 2nd gear, the puck wanted to move a little to the closed position, but got hung up....so I lost most of the boost.

I could get 19psi off the line, then as soon as it hit 2nd gear it would drop to like 13psi or so and then it was a rollercoaster between 13-15psi the rest of the way down the 1/4mile.

Oh well, what I would like is a 4 bolt(to manifold) housing that can bolt up to a garrett turbo. Sounds like Tony went with a PTE housing on his Chan(garrett turbo), for an integral setup. I'd like to stay external, so maybe Mike or PTE has something for garrett turbos (4 bolt) that isn't integral. Just haven't really needed to look into it yet, because I'll make what I have work for now.

Has this topic been beaten to death yet? :roll:

So in conclusion, the ATR downpipe is by far the best choice for all turbos?

 

[10secTy]

Sorry guys just pokeing fun . Tonys turbo uses a PTE housing with the PTE internal. The center and compressor is from Chan.

If you have a turbo from chan with his old exhaust housing I would change it.

Nolan

 

[sytyfreak]

Thanx for the info guys

But, heres my problem:

I want to run a 3 inch DP on anyway I choose to go. If I do the 20G upgrade I want to run a 3 DP, but I haven't found another DP other than the ATR (which I'm trying to avoid because of some negative comments I've heard) that would fit with the stock headers and will fit stock turbo/20G. I don't want to go PTE since I already have a TIAL wastegate. And my other option the RPM DP(for Ext. wastegate) is designed towards a Garret style turbo and Innovative gate(correct me on the innovative comment, if wrong).

I've been thinking going PTE(TE-44) but I would like to keep the TIAL and I don't want to disable the PTE's internal. On the other hand I like the 20G because it's a direct bolt on, but I would like to run a 3 inch downpipe too and I can't find one other than the one Morgan was offering but it hasn't been finished. I've also have considered going with an RPM kit(since I like externals) but that would also mean I have to get ridd of the TIAL :x

What would you guys do if you were in my shoes??? Also if there's any other option that I haven't noticed or didn't mention please feel free to comment.

Thanx!

Ok, i'm going to say this for the last time - and this isn't ripping on you, it's just because I see it every other week or so.

THE ATR DOWNPIPE DOES NOT BOLT UP TO THE STOCK TURBO. IT BOLTS UP TO A GARRETT TURBO. MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE FLANGE THAT IS ON A 3 BOLT BUICK HOUSING BY GARRETT; IT WILL FIT THE SYTY PTE HOUSING WITH SOME SLIGHT MODIFICATION.

For your application - what are your goals now, what will they be? If they are only 11s/12s - I'd look into a hybrid setup, keep the wastegate on the crossover. Down the road if you are hurting on the stock downpipe, have a custom one done. Mike Lee *may* have a downpipe setup for w/o a wastegate. He has also told me that he can workup his downpipe to mount whatever wastegate you want - he might just need it handy for the fabrication.

Sorry about the ATR comment

Yeah, basically my goals are a mid to low 12's truck and low 12's/high 11's turning up the boost and running alcohol/propane. Are you talking about mitsu/garret hybrid turbo???

Thanx

 

[sy112]

I have been trying to do some research on upgrading turbos here of late and am kind of getting the general idea. I'm right there with sytyfreak on what his goal is on his truck. A low 12 second truck is about what i would like for the street and maybe breaking 11's with all the tuning you you can do at the track(boost, gas, etc.) I am leaning towards 20g or getting my stocker rebuilt to better specs. I generally like the idea of straight bolt on stuff. My question is the use of a 3" DP instead of stock. With the basic "stock" setup like we are talking about, will there be a dramatic differnece in going 3" DP? I don't quite understand everything about these setups but i am not understanding why you are so stuck on going 3" DP sytyfreak. With a larger turbo with a lot more boost yeah, but with the setup we are talking about i think it would be kind of unneccesary to accpomplish what we are aimming for. IMHO anyway. please someone clarify.