I think the motor died

[pinellas50]

I had the truck out all weekend and it was running great. Today, I pulled into a parking lot and noticed the engine chugging. Like it had a dead cylinder. I turned it off and went into a store. Came back and tried to start it and there was a clunk. The starter was engaging and all but the motor didn't want to spin.

I noticed that the starter was turning the motor over extremely slowly so I held it on for a second and the motor spun over and started. I figured I would limp it home to look into it further. On the short way home it was still missing a cylinder and started over heating. I shut it down once I got it into the garage and it sounded like the coolant in the block was boiling. The oil pressure was normal the entire time.

Just to see what it would do, I tried to start it again. This time there was a loud crack and the starter spins feely....like it broke the gear on it or something.

Sounds like I'm screwed doesn't it?

No water in the oil.

I guess I will try and pull the plugs and see if the motor spins over by hand and go from there. Any ideas or suggestions?

 

[MRKING]

Re: I think the motor died

:tdown: Good thing you didnt hear all kinds of noises from broken metal rotating around . Hopefully its an easy fix .

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: I think the motor died

Oh, that sounds bad.....
... all sorts of very serious things come to mind.... Let us know what you find.
How about oil in the water?

 

[Sy229]

Re: I think the motor died

Seized water pump? (might explain overheating and sluggish turnover on start). Or maybe a blocked coolant chamber? Was any related work done on the truck lately?

 

[pinellas50]

Re: I think the motor died

Nothing was done recently. It has been running like a champ. I did a tune up on it and new vacuum lines quite a few months ago and it has been running fine for several hundred miles. I haven't pulled the radiator cap of yet to see if there is oil in the coolant. The boiling sound was coming more from the driver's side of the motor. The motor was put in at a dealership in 2003...that's all I know about it. There were no unusual sounds coming from it at all. I have had rod knock in other motors and know what that sounds like. I have never had a bent rod(which I have read about here a few times) so I don't know what the symptoms of that are.

To me, it seems like it has a spot in the rotation of the motor that has a huge amount of friction to it. And it definately felt like it was running on 5 cylinders. If it wasn't doing this not spinning over and over heating thing, I would feel real comfortable saying it was a simple ignition problem. My gut tells me this is much worse. I really don't know where to start with diagnosing the thing aside from seeing if the motor will turn by hand. I'll pull the belt and the plugs before doing that.

I also can't think of what would be causing all of these symptoms. A blown head gasket mabey allowing water into a cylinder and hydro locking it. But there was no smoke coming out of the exhaust. There was a hot smell to it cause my kids in the back were complaining about smelling smoke. There was nothing visible and nothing coming out of the tail pipe.

I think that last pop I heard was the starter gear shearing off or the teeth breaking off the flex plate.

I'll start the tear down/exploration in a few days. I'm too sick about this to even look at the thing right now.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: I think the motor died

Nothing was done recently. It has been running like a champ. I did a tune up on it and new vacuum lines quite a few months ago and it has been running fine for several hundred miles. I haven't pulled the radiator cap of yet to see if there is oil in the coolant. The boiling sound was coming more from the driver's side of the motor. The motor was put in at a dealership in 2003...that's all I know about it. There were no unusual sounds coming from it at all. I have had rod knock in other motors and know what that sounds like. I have never had a bent rod(which I have read about here a few times) so I don't know what the symptoms of that are.

To me, it seems like it has a spot in the rotation of the motor that has a huge amount of friction to it. And it definately felt like it was running on 5 cylinders. If it wasn't doing this not spinning over and over heating thing, I would feel real comfortable saying it was a simple ignition problem. My gut tells me this is much worse. I really don't know where to start with diagnosing the thing aside from seeing if the motor will turn by hand. I'll pull the belt and the plugs before doing that.

I also can't think of what would be causing all of these symptoms. A blown head gasket mabey allowing water into a cylinder and hydro locking it. But there was no smoke coming out of the exhaust. There was a hot smell to it cause my kids in the back were complaining about smelling smoke. There was nothing visible and nothing coming out of the tail pipe.

I think that last pop I heard was the starter gear shearing off or the teeth breaking off the flex plate.

I'll start the tear down/exploration in a few days. I'm too sick about this to even look at the thing right now.

Could be the impeller separated from the shaft on the water pump... usually popping/clicking in a head is an indication of an air pocket. Could be it overheated enough to boil coolant out of the heads.... from there could have just seized. Think I'll go get a good coolant gauge....
... Hope I'm wrong and you find something minimally wrong

 

[TurboTony]

Re: I think the motor died

Sounds like you are getting coolant into a cylinder.

Hydraulicled a cylinder and killed your starter pinion. Pull the plugs and I bet at least one will have coolant pour out. You'll have to figure out how and why it got in there. I hope you didn't bend a connecting rod when you tried to start it. Also pull the starter out and have a look at the the drive pinion and all the teeth on the flexplate.

Tony

 

[pinellas50]

Re: I think the motor died

I should clarify, the motor didn't over heat. It got much hotter than it ever has before and the temp guage was climbing quickly before I shut it off. The stock temp guage never got up to even 1/4 on the guage. It reached 1/2 today when I was limping it home. I don't know how hot that would be but I don't think it reached anything outrageous.

But it did this in the span of just a few miles.

If I was getting coolant into the cylinder, wouldn't I have been laying down a smoke screen behind me? At least with the amount of coolant that would support this idea?

Update: There is no coolant visible in the radiator. So I'm going to guess at this point that it went out the exhaust. I guess it is safe to assume that I will be pulling the heads.....and probably more.

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: I think the motor died

So did you pull plugs yet?

 

[Tooky]

Re: I think the motor died

Can't wait to hear what you find when you pull the plugs!

If you need reference photos on pulling the heads, I've got a large set in my Member's Projects thread "Lower intake swap / Vortec head & cam install".

 

[pinellas50]

Re: I think the motor died

I just pulled the plug on #5 and found my missing coolant.* I don't see a need to pull any more.* I'll pull the head on that side next but that is going to take a while for me to do.Chances are the motor is hurt now from hydro locking is my guess. But I hope not.

I'll check those pics out Tooky. This is the first Chevy that I have even gone into like this.

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: I think the motor died

This is the first Chevy that I have even gone into like this.

Chevy!!!??? Ooohhh you bastard!!! :lol:

 

[pinellas50]

Re: I think the motor died

Are there any inherent weaknesses in this motor that may be suspect here? Like Fords and their head gaskets. Are the rods weak enough that I should be worried about one of them being bent now? I'm just looking for pointers to keep a look out for as I tear this down.

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: I think the motor died

I personally dont believe there is a particular problem area in our motors. As long as it is assembled properly you should be fine. And like Dave said, stay away from the Tonawanda rods. I was told before that the intake gasktes are known to leak but I know no one that it has happened to. I would have to say if these motors were known for some type of problem it would have to be the rear main seal. Make sure when you install your oil pump, you weld the pick up tube on there. I had one fall off once, it sucked because I had built the motor 3 years earlier and it always ran amazing and never leaked anything. It did take the motor out though.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: I think the motor died

Well all the teeth are on the flywheel. It was the starter that broke. Mabey I'll get lucky and not have to pull the motor.

Damn there is a lot going on under the hood of these things! I spent about an hour and a half pulling and labeling vacuum lines, electrical connections, hoses, etc and moving them out of the way. It doesn't look like I even did anything in there after all that.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: I think the motor died

Good news.

I got the driver' side head off today. It was the head gasket. It burnt through the fire ring and compromised a coolant port.

No bent rods! #5 comes all the way to the top like the others and the piston is oriented the same as the others(ie the rod didn't twist).

I'm happy. While I have it apart I will have the heads milled and have the guides and seals checked. I'll also put in the ZQ8 box, HD steering shaft, and have the headers coated.

I might even take this time to put a new turbo in. This one has two bent fins on it which I think is what makes it sound more like a supercharger than a turbo. I can put that off for awhile as it still boosts fine.

Headgaskets. What are your recommendations? I used Cometics on my supercharged Ford with great sucess. Are they available for these motors? And are they perferred over others out there?

ARP head bolts or is reusing the stock ones adequate?

 

[TYHOGG]

Re: I think the motor died

Cometics are avalible the heads need to be milled for them to work. Most guys run the stock Victor Renz with little problems in the mid/upper 20 psi range.

 

[pinellas50]

 

[Tooky]

Re: I think the motor died

Good pics. As long as you're this far in, you might want to check my whole thread cuz I talk about the same things your asking here.

I had both the stock Victor gaskets and the Cometic and I went with Victor because the Cometics need the head and block deck milled to 50RA or better... I spent a lot of time hand scraping the deck but even that was surely not smooth enough for the Cometics. SyTy user "Wes" did install Cometics on a stock block Typhoon without decking it and he said it ran well for years. YMMV.

With the stock Victor gasket and the cheapest SBC 6pt ARP head bolt kit (part numbers in my thread) I have held up to 22 PSI boost and ran 11.45 @ 117.7 so far. I wouldn't reuse the stock bolts.

Those stock heads suck, I would strongly consider vortecs or at least L35s (which bolt right on). Take a look inside the intake port, at that "spiral staircase" cast into the stock heads. What a joke for flow!!

 

[pinellas50]

Re: I think the motor died

That's an awsome write up Tooky. It looks like the Victor Reinz gaskets might be the best idea for me. I may have gotten lucky with the Cometics on my Ford cause I didn't resurface the block....just new aluminum heads that I bolted on out of the box. But if the Victor gaskets are holding everything you are throwing at them they should be fine for my stocker I would think. I just don't know why this current one failed the way it did.

I understand the benefits of doing the head swap. But I'm keeping this thing all stock except for some of the minor upgrades. New heads would just be the start of that downhill slide into new everything.....injectors, tune, turbo, tranny... I went through all of that with my Ranger(V8 supercharged) and I have had enough of all of that.

I bought the Ty with the intentions of just driving it and seldom working on it. I guess I should have done a little more homework with the second part of that expectation :roll: . But I guess I would be bored if I didn't have something to work on and something for my better half to be annoyed with.

Tooky...thaks for your help on this. I'll pick up some ARP bolts today. It looks like I have to order the Victor gaskets directly from them as far as I can tell.