Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Michael

Member
My 92 Typhoon has just started having a problem. It isn't shifting out of 1st until 3500 rpm at part throttle or 5000 rpm at full throttle (which seems to run up against a rev limiter). The 2-3 & 3-4 shifts seem normal. Total mileage 153k, but trans is a GM rebuilt unit with 20k & 2.5 years on it. I have only been driving it 2x per month lately.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Michael
 

turbodig

Active member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Michael said:
My 92 Typhoon has just started having a problem. It isn't shifting out of 1st until 3500 rpm at part throttle or 5000 rpm at full throttle (which seems to run up against a rev limiter). The 2-3 & 3-4 shifts seem normal. Total mileage 153k, but trans is a GM rebuilt unit with 20k & 2.5 years on it. I have only been driving it 2x per month lately.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Michael

1- stuck governor

or


2- fried 1-2 band
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Yep. Stuck governor or what you "think" is the 1-2 shift is really a 1-3 shift and the converter lockup is being mistaken for another gear.
 

Michael

Member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Is the governor the same as the "old school" trannys (e.g., TH350), and stuck in from the outside? In other words, can I pull it readily? Do they use a weight-and-spring approach?

I am hoping that the band is okay. It does not rev excessively (like a slipping band/clutch) when in 1st, it just shifts too late.

Thanks,
Michael
 

Loeryder

New member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

The gov is mechanical like the TH350 and 400s and can be removed from the truck without dropping the trans.

Keep in mind the SyTy gov is way off what most other vehicles are calibrated for.
We use lighter springs to get the shifts down lower.
5k puts you into the redline.

I haven't "tuned" my gov to shift earlier yet but have been told by those who tackle it that its a bitch to get right on.

I have a couple PDFs on gov calibrations and some personal notes, I was hoping one of the users would put up a tech page with his experience but I understand why he doesn't.
its tough to get help on some of the more advanced or quirky things because each truck may react differently based on mods and what not.
And then some people are just bitter that no one helped them figure it out so everyone else is on their own too...
 

turbodig

Active member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Michael said:
Is the governor the same as the "old school" trannys (e.g., TH350), and stuck in from the outside? In other words, can I pull it readily? Do they use a weight-and-spring approach?

I am hoping that the band is okay. It does not rev excessively (like a slipping band/clutch) when in 1st, it just shifts too late.

Thanks,
Michael

That's how the band acts when it slips... it slips up to the rev limit, then the limiter hits, backs off power, it shifts, and moves on.

The high shift on the non-wot shift is what would lead me to believe it was the governor sticking.

You can get it out from the outside, but due to the propshaft being there, it's not what I'd call easy...
 

Tooky

Serious about performance
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

I hate to state the obvious but is your TV cable adjusted properly? Judging from your assertion that the 2-3 and 3-4 are still normal, I'd assume "yes" but just wanted to check..
 

Michael

Member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

TV cable is adjusted properly.

How do I remove the governor? Reading the manual, it sounds like I use a punch to rock it back & forth. Isn't there any kind of retainer snap ring?

BTW, does anyone know what the warranty is on a factory rebuilt trans? Wondering if it is worth hassling with them over this.

Thanks,
Michael
 

denny

Active member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Michael said:
TV cable is adjusted properly.

How do I remove the governor? Reading the manual, it sounds like I use a punch to rock it back & forth. Isn't there any kind of retainer snap ring?

Thanks,
Michael

I am an expert, can remove and replace in less than 5 min. You can do it with the propshaft in place, no snap ring. All you need is a big screwdriver and a small hammer. Slight tap the screwdriver and pry the cover off.
To reinstall , tap the cover back on. Be carefull not to hit it hard ,you might bent the cover. Use the hammer weight, don't use force.
 

Michael

Member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Just found my warranty paperwork, and it's still under warranty (3 years, 50k miles)! They said to bring it in, and if it is a transmission problem then they will cover it under warranty. Biggest hassle is the fact that I bought the trans from a dealership in a neighboring town since they had the best price (and a guy on this list worked there), but I may just trailer it over there so I have a ride home.

Thanks for the input!

Michael
 

Michael

Member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Well, I just wasted my afternoon at the stealership. They wanted a deposit of $87 for "diagnostic" fee in case there was nothing wrong with the trans (no problem since it is obviously the friggin tranny). I ask if they have the correct manuals for a Typhoon to get the shift point specifications. She goes back to talk to the technician, then returns and tells me that it is the exact same transmission and specs as a regular Blazer. I explain that the transmission is calibrated differently, and I have the Typhoon manual supplement which explains it. She tells me she will make a note of it and make sure they look up the correct specs. After waiting an hour, the technician finally shows up and tells me there is nothing wrong with it. I ask him if he ran any WOT shifts, and he said he did. I ask him if it hit the rev limiter, he says yes, but that is normal on a WOT shift (WTF???!?!!!?? Maybe in Idiot Tech World, but not on Earth). I ask him what speeds it shifted at with minimal throttle, and he admits to 20-22 mph, but claims that is normal. I remind him that it just started doing it and shifted fine before, then show him the sheet in the factory Typhoon manual which lists 12-14 mph range, and point out that it is shifting when the 2-3 shift should happen. He reluctantly agrees to head back out and take a second look.

After another 40 minutes (and 12+ miles on my Typhoon), he sends the service writer in to tell me that it is a bad TV cable. I tell her that I have already checked the TV cable, and there is nothing wrong with it. She comes back out after talking to him, and says that it is badly kinked and that it was extremely loose. I mention that I am aware of the kink (I'll post a photo of it if I can figure out how to on this forum), and that it has been that way all along (since I bought the truck 7+ years ago). I have never worried about this minor kink since it immediately straightens out when throttle is applied (the spring tension of the TV cable is much more than the kink). I also mention that a severely kinked TV cable would be the same as being adjusted too tight, which would cause higher shifts but much firmer shifts due to the increased line pressure. I also explain that being too loose (as this moron tech claimed) would result in too low of a shift. She tells me that his tech is "World Class, one of the best in the world at what he does. He knows everything about these cars". I tell her that he obviously doesn't know that much or he would have known that a tighter TV cable would result in harsher shifts. She tells me that the TV cable MUST be replaced, that it is not covered under the tranny warranty (obviously not a part of the rebuilt tranny), and that GM has discontinued the cable. I ask her what happens after I fix the TV cable and the problem is still present (now that I'm out my $87 AND 2 hours of my life), she assures me that it is the problem (after all, this guy is one of the best in the world), but finally agrees to put in writing that they will refund my $87 and fix the problem if it is not the TV cable. I note that they list my truck as "1992 GMC Jimmy".

I'll give them one chance to make it right before telling everyone which stealership this is.

I was able to eliminate the kink in the cable with about 10 seconds and 2 pairs of pliers. I readjusted the TV cable (wow, it ended up back in the exact notch that it was in all along!). Surprise, surprise, the problem still exists!

Just in case I need to buy a new TV cable (but I think I'll get my lawyer involved before I waste any more of my time), does anyone have the part number handy? Are they still available from GM?

Thanks,
Michael Pliska
 

Tooky

Serious about performance
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

I feel your pain.

Can you take the claim to another dealership for the warranty? This one obviously doesnt know their head from a hole in the ground. They're probably blowing smoke up your ass because they either don't have any idea how to fix it or how it should properly perform in the first place, or else they DO know how hard it is to recalibrate a transmission and they are trying to bully their way out of it. Either case, not good.

You could do like I did and become a DIY transmission mechanic. That's the only way to REALLY get your transmission performing 100%!! Relying on others usually results in disappointment, at least in my experience..

PS: I'll bet nobody involved with your truck at this dealership has ever heard of a wonderful thing called..... "Root Cause Analysis"...

The practice of RCA is predicated on the belief that problems are best solved by attempting to correct or eliminate root causes, as opposed to merely addressing the immediately obvious symptoms.
:tup: I live and die by Root Cause Analysis!!
 

Michael

Member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

According to the warranty fine print, the selling dealer must approve any other dealer working on it. I have sent an e-mail to GM Goodwrench's customer service, to see if I can get THEM to approve an alternate dealer.

I am normally willing to dive into my own projects, but now it's a matter of principle! I want my $87 back, and I want GM to pay someone to fix this damn thing!

I used to work on transmissions many years ago (mostly trans-brake equipped powerglides in my race car), and actually designed them early in my career (seriously bulletproof automatic transmissions for forklifts). However, I did not feel like learning all the idiosyncracies of another transmission model. If anything, I wanted to refresh my memory on 'glides (and learn all the new tricks since I touched one 15+ years ago), as I'm putting my race car back together. I just want my Typhoon to be a reasonably quick, reliable daily driver.

Thanks,
Michael
 

dgoodhue

BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

If your gettting transmission warrenty work, you have to make sure they are not screwing you out of your original discontinued Ty transmisson parts. SyTy have unique Valve Bodies/Seperator Plates/Govenors and have the Corvette upgrades (Mostly '093' servo and 0.470 TV valve). A regular 4.3 Goodwrench 4.3 will not last long behind a SyTy motor. You need the above upgrudes to keep it together. Make sure that you are keeping your original Ty valve body/seperator plate. and it doesn't get used as a core. Aslso make sure they use the correct stall converter, the regular Blazer stall converter is a couple hundred RPM too low and makes for a laggy truck off the line.
 

James Thomas

"NO CLASS"
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

dgoodhue said:
If your gettting transmission warrenty work, you have to make sure they are not screwing you out of your original discontinued Ty transmisson parts. SyTy have unique Valve Bodies/Seperator Plates/Govenors and have the Corvette upgrades (Mostly '093' servo and 0.470 TV valve). A regular 4.3 Goodwrench 4.3 will not last long behind a SyTy motor. You need the above upgrudes to keep it together. Make sure that you are keeping your original Ty valve body/seperator plate. and it doesn't get used as a core. Aslso make sure they use the correct stall converter, the regular Blazer stall converter is a couple hundred RPM too low and makes for a laggy truck off the line.


X2 on what Dave said. Since you say this is the same dealer that did the original repair, you need to verify that the parts / trans assy that were used for the original repair are really the correct SyTy required parts in the first place. At this point you need to be speaking with the Service Manager in person and go armed with all the tech ammo at hand to prove to him that his tech and service writer are just not doing their job and are far from "world class" but in a nice way at this point!

If this doesn't go over well and or the correct parts were not used in the first repair, then you need to just tell the Service Manager that discontinued parts (they are still available even if they are required to out source them i.e. George Blake), bad service tech's / service writers and lack of knowledge or even just looking up the correct spec's for the job at hand etc. are, quite honestly not your problem and that they are still 100% accountable for the warranty and PROPER PARTS / REPAIR. Then ask him for the ph # for his area GM field service rep. that you feel the need to bring this to his and GM's attention to ensure a proper and correct repair.

If that still won't fly.... then go consider speaking to the General manager of the dealership or going legal but be ready to have a long long wait to get it done.

_________
James
 

Michael

Member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

This is the dealership where I bought the tranny, but I did the install myself. I made sure beforehand that the warranty was applicable on a self-installed transmission. I also verified the part numbers when purchasing it (with help from people on this forum). The guy who originally helped me at the dealership was a Ty owner and member of this forum (GMPartsGuy), but he quit before I actually placed the order.

I plan to call back today and ask to speak to the service manager. I would have demanded to speak to him when all this was going on, but it was getting very late and I was late to pick up my daughter.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a dealership in the Portland area which is familiar with Sy/Ty transmissions?

As far as the governor itself, the original part number (8679638) does not show up in GMPartsDirect.com. Are they still available? What usually goes bad in a governor? I didn't see any springs listed for it in the parts manual, and all the individual parts listed (cap, cover, gear, pin & valve) were all common part numbers with the regular transmissions. If there are parts that this dealer can get for me, I am willing to work on this thing myself just to get it done.

Thanks,
Michael Pliska
 
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turbodig

Active member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Who underwrote the extended warranty (or is this just on the trans itself)?

If you go back, mention the word lawyer. A lot.
Also mention the phrase "post this all over the internet".

They'll put a new trans in to get you to shut up. It's a shame you have to do this, but you likely will. I've been down the same road.

I will tell you this- it ain't Mr. Goodwrech that's rebuilding GM transmissions.
The same good-'ol-boy rebuilders are doing the GM rebuilds and pasting a Goodwrench sticker on it. Might as well get one from AutoZone.
 

dgoodhue

BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Ahhh, so you have a replacement tranny. If I had to guess your replacement doesn't have the Corvette Servo and you smoke the 2-4 Band.

Do you still have your original Ty tranny? I would warranty the Goodwrench tranny and pull and intall, the Servo, Valve Body (disaasemble & clean it out first), TV valve (or use a .500), govenor from your original tranny if you still have it. The govenor is discontinued, but you should be able to find something close if your original doesn't work. For instance my 86 Corvette had 4600 rpm shift which is only slightly higher than stock.
 

Michael

Member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Dig,
The warranty is just on the trans itself, but they cover labor to repair a defective unit. The paperwork all says "GM Goodwrench Service Replacement Transmission Assembly".

Dave,
I don't have the original tranny, had to turn it in for a core. Until this problem it did function the same as the original, as far as shift points and shift firmness. are you thinking that I am feeling the 2-4 band slipping? It doesn't feel like slippage at all, as the truck accelerates fine once I am into 2nd gear (and accelerates fine in 1st gear until I hit the rev limiter).

Incidentally, the problem is somewhat intermittent. Sometimes it shifts at around 4800 WOT, other times closer to 5200 (and getting into the rev limiter). This part also made me think it is the governor sticking, and it sometimes moves closer to the rpm it is supposed to move at.

Thanks,
Michael
 

JSM

Active member
Re: Trans Shifting too high out of 1st

Even if you get them to warranty the trans, shortly after you will be back into the same problems. It just won't last as the replacement won't even compare to a stock syty trans.

Hassle wise your better off just getting a trans known good from here, or a builder on here and be done with it. If you want to take the old trans, throw it on their counter and say here is your fubar trans, get a replacement and sell that as is might be your best bet if you can even get that.
 
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