Will titanium valves work in boosted app.?
- Thread starter 4C FED
- Start date
James Thomas
"NO CLASS"
Re: Will titanium valves work in boosted app.?
Sure you can run them, and I would if I had them. Bullet proof and light weight, easy on the valve train. Those are 7000 + r.p.m. Me thinks you will be ok In. & Ex.
____________
James
Sure you can run them, and I would if I had them. Bullet proof and light weight, easy on the valve train. Those are 7000 + r.p.m. Me thinks you will be ok In. & Ex.
____________
James
James Thomas
"NO CLASS"
Re: Will titanium valves work in boosted app.?
Ok if that's the case then I need to pull all the exhaust valves out of my blower motors?
Hmmm.... well 4C FED, if you don't want them please send 'em my way. I'll run them.
__________
James
Ok if that's the case then I need to pull all the exhaust valves out of my blower motors?
Hmmm.... well 4C FED, if you don't want them please send 'em my way. I'll run them.
__________
James
BULLY Syclone
Höhe Fragen!
Re: Will titanium valves work in boosted app.?
Hmm.....Blowers dont back up exhaust and cause the heat turbos do! Would you realy want the guy to try it and shell his motor cause you say its right hmm.......prolly not.
You should also make the land on the exhaust valves wider so the heads will pull the heat out of the valves,My engine even has a single angle valve job on the exhaust.
Just my thoughts.
Hmm.....Blowers dont back up exhaust and cause the heat turbos do! Would you realy want the guy to try it and shell his motor cause you say its right hmm.......prolly not.
You should also make the land on the exhaust valves wider so the heads will pull the heat out of the valves,My engine even has a single angle valve job on the exhaust.
Just my thoughts.
James Thomas
"NO CLASS"
Re: Will titanium valves work in boosted app.?
No offence to anyone here but there is not a SYTY V-6 I am aware of on this board that is running a T/AD class alcohol or nitro engine, including mine? If so I stand corrected. I will put the stress of any street drivable sub 30 psi. engine against that of one of my or any one else's 30 + psi blown fuel engine any day. One thing that no one here (including myself) asked, is if this is a street driver or a track racer :doh: ? If It is driven on the street then I might tend to agree with you. If it is a race engine then I totally disagree. I assumed that this is a track build because of the simple fact the Ti valves are very seldom if ever used for a street build due to cost / benefit alone :screwy: .
So before this goes any farther, lets do the right thing here and just ask instead of trading "maybe" comments about this when the man's engine is involved. IS THIS A STREET DRIVER OR RACE BUILD? If it is a street build I really don't understand the need for Ti valves in the first place. Pretty spendy and not required unless you drive to work at 7000 r.p.m. or more. But hey, I'm not the build police either and due see a concren, even if a slight one for trying to "daily drive" those. If this is a race build or more race and a little street that will spin high enough to benefit, then thats my story and I'm sticking to it because I have driven a blown fuel '32 on the street, did it for several years as a matter of fact (more or less as a joke and to piss the locals off but it was good advertising also) and never had a problem other than fouled plugs and a fuel supplier that sends me X-mas cards every year :rotf:
James
No offence to anyone here but there is not a SYTY V-6 I am aware of on this board that is running a T/AD class alcohol or nitro engine, including mine? If so I stand corrected. I will put the stress of any street drivable sub 30 psi. engine against that of one of my or any one else's 30 + psi blown fuel engine any day. One thing that no one here (including myself) asked, is if this is a street driver or a track racer :doh: ? If It is driven on the street then I might tend to agree with you. If it is a race engine then I totally disagree. I assumed that this is a track build because of the simple fact the Ti valves are very seldom if ever used for a street build due to cost / benefit alone :screwy: .
So before this goes any farther, lets do the right thing here and just ask instead of trading "maybe" comments about this when the man's engine is involved. IS THIS A STREET DRIVER OR RACE BUILD? If it is a street build I really don't understand the need for Ti valves in the first place. Pretty spendy and not required unless you drive to work at 7000 r.p.m. or more. But hey, I'm not the build police either and due see a concren, even if a slight one for trying to "daily drive" those. If this is a race build or more race and a little street that will spin high enough to benefit, then thats my story and I'm sticking to it because I have driven a blown fuel '32 on the street, did it for several years as a matter of fact (more or less as a joke and to piss the locals off but it was good advertising also) and never had a problem other than fouled plugs and a fuel supplier that sends me X-mas cards every year :rotf:
James
Windedv6
Ty n 10s
Re: Will titanium valves work in boosted app.?
James
No one here is challenging you so there is no need to get defensive. Most of us understand that an alcohol motor runs much cooler than a high boosted turbo setup. My intakes temps at 28-30 lbs of boost run almost 1,700*. I have close friends with alcohol dragsters and they hardly need a radiator as they run so cool.
I had my headwork done at Flowtech which is a nationally known shop. They explained to me (my heads came with Titanium valves also) that the stem will get brittle with the high heat and valve head will snap off. Most of these heads that we are finding with these valves are coming from the circle track motors. They are not running as hot of exhaust temps and aren't worried about detonation.
If someone is is not going to run these valves, in our application, towards the max and is using a good meth injection tune, I think they would be fine. I changed mine out as it seemed to be good insurance for the price I have in my setup.
John
James Thomas said:
James
No one here is challenging you so there is no need to get defensive. Most of us understand that an alcohol motor runs much cooler than a high boosted turbo setup. My intakes temps at 28-30 lbs of boost run almost 1,700*. I have close friends with alcohol dragsters and they hardly need a radiator as they run so cool.
I had my headwork done at Flowtech which is a nationally known shop. They explained to me (my heads came with Titanium valves also) that the stem will get brittle with the high heat and valve head will snap off. Most of these heads that we are finding with these valves are coming from the circle track motors. They are not running as hot of exhaust temps and aren't worried about detonation.
If someone is is not going to run these valves, in our application, towards the max and is using a good meth injection tune, I think they would be fine. I changed mine out as it seemed to be good insurance for the price I have in my setup.
John
James Thomas
"NO CLASS"
Re: Will titanium valves work in boosted app.?
Please don't get me wrong, not getting defensive at all. Just stating the obvious, problem is the obvious doesn't seem to be. I guess I take a LOT of things for granted like if the combustion chamber and valves are TBC coated this is not a problem / issue and not only can you run any vavle you want, you will pick up an average of 5+ hp, a full point or so on your compression or a degree or two on your timing. Sorry, I won't bolt an enging together using pro / comp parts with out it and the gains are larger for coating the pistons, In. & Ex. runners (heads and intake), bearings etc., but that's me and I forget that not every builds like me.
If your heads came from circle track use, they may be coated already. Check them real close and see. Dave / Reher-Morrison does most on my big inch engine raw work and this is something that we have been over time and time again with our perspective customers. By the way, in order to run a big inch fuel or alky engine on the street, it requires cooling systems, mix blends (more nitro, big difference over straight alky.) and A/F ratios that have a 1,300 - 1,600 ex. temp (after the run). A little but not that much different than gasoline, but again a huge difference for a engine tuned to run for several minutes max with no cooling system vs. tuned to run continous (well at least 15-30 min.) to drive on the street from a to b in stop and go.
Yes you fellas wanting to run circle track heads on the street will have to make a few changes. Look into the coatings, makes a huge difference in several different ways. I'll shut up now and let you fellas build them how ever you like
_____________
James
Please don't get me wrong, not getting defensive at all. Just stating the obvious, problem is the obvious doesn't seem to be. I guess I take a LOT of things for granted like if the combustion chamber and valves are TBC coated this is not a problem / issue and not only can you run any vavle you want, you will pick up an average of 5+ hp, a full point or so on your compression or a degree or two on your timing. Sorry, I won't bolt an enging together using pro / comp parts with out it and the gains are larger for coating the pistons, In. & Ex. runners (heads and intake), bearings etc., but that's me and I forget that not every builds like me.
If your heads came from circle track use, they may be coated already. Check them real close and see. Dave / Reher-Morrison does most on my big inch engine raw work and this is something that we have been over time and time again with our perspective customers. By the way, in order to run a big inch fuel or alky engine on the street, it requires cooling systems, mix blends (more nitro, big difference over straight alky.) and A/F ratios that have a 1,300 - 1,600 ex. temp (after the run). A little but not that much different than gasoline, but again a huge difference for a engine tuned to run for several minutes max with no cooling system vs. tuned to run continous (well at least 15-30 min.) to drive on the street from a to b in stop and go.
Yes you fellas wanting to run circle track heads on the street will have to make a few changes. Look into the coatings, makes a huge difference in several different ways. I'll shut up now and let you fellas build them how ever you like
_____________
James
Last edited:
ghettosled
SYTY SUPERSTORE
Re: Will titanium valves work in boosted app.?
you dont want to run titanium exhaust valves on a turbo motor (be it street or strip) They are too brittle and dont take the heat cycles as well as SS or inconel (preferred) I have yet to see any serious turbocharged race cars (boneville, nmca, nmra, psca, etc) running titanium exhaust valves. May be a couple, but not alot.
blown/injected or supercharged vehicles dont have excessive positive exhaust pressure, and egt's which cause the headers to glow bright red. so it is a completely different situation then a turbo motor.
Do yourself a favor and buy some quality stainless or inconel exhaust valves. keep the intakes
you dont want to run titanium exhaust valves on a turbo motor (be it street or strip) They are too brittle and dont take the heat cycles as well as SS or inconel (preferred) I have yet to see any serious turbocharged race cars (boneville, nmca, nmra, psca, etc) running titanium exhaust valves. May be a couple, but not alot.
blown/injected or supercharged vehicles dont have excessive positive exhaust pressure, and egt's which cause the headers to glow bright red. so it is a completely different situation then a turbo motor.
Do yourself a favor and buy some quality stainless or inconel exhaust valves. keep the intakes
Re: Will titanium valves work in boosted app.?
Above and beyond the heat issue, Ti valves are very intolerant to dirt and debris. Any contamination that gets by the airfilter will drastically shorten your valve seal and valve life. That being said many new 4 stroke dirt bikes run Ti valves and thats a harsh environment they live in. Ti valves on the street usually aren't worth the little benifit you get. However the new Z06 runs Ti intake valves. Your call, just be prepared for a short service life.
Above and beyond the heat issue, Ti valves are very intolerant to dirt and debris. Any contamination that gets by the airfilter will drastically shorten your valve seal and valve life. That being said many new 4 stroke dirt bikes run Ti valves and thats a harsh environment they live in. Ti valves on the street usually aren't worth the little benifit you get. However the new Z06 runs Ti intake valves. Your call, just be prepared for a short service life.
4C FED
Absolutum Dominium
Re: Will titanium valves work in boosted app.?
Thanks for everyone's input.
I've got this week off to work on both trucks.
One of my tasks this week is to have my Stage 3 Vortec's & Pontiac's flowed to see which way I'll go.
I've already spent several hundred $'s having new guides, valve job & exhaust hardseats installed on the Vortec's, so they're ready to run. Whereas the Pontiacs need springs, retainers, exhaust valves & valve job. Not to mention some additional work to get the Jesel's to line up with everything.
I'll post some flow numbers once I get them back.
Thanks for everyone's input.
I've got this week off to work on both trucks.
One of my tasks this week is to have my Stage 3 Vortec's & Pontiac's flowed to see which way I'll go.
I've already spent several hundred $'s having new guides, valve job & exhaust hardseats installed on the Vortec's, so they're ready to run. Whereas the Pontiacs need springs, retainers, exhaust valves & valve job. Not to mention some additional work to get the Jesel's to line up with everything.
I'll post some flow numbers once I get them back.